1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Once Saved Always Saved?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by JSM17, Mar 6, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 15 of 16
  1. JSM17

    JSM17 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    0
    Some Christians deal with the passages concerning falling away by claiming they are hypothetical. "IF" a person could depart from God, he could not return. But, it makes no sense for God to constantly warn us against apostasy if it were not possible. These are not idle threats. The Word of God gives us examples of real people who departed from God through unbelief.
    1 Tim 1:19-20
    19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
    20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
    (KJV)

    Paul warned Timothy to guard his faith. He stated clearly that some had abandoned their faith and shipwrecked. Then he named two acquaintances, Hymenaeus and Alexander, who became apostates by blaspheming the Holy Spirit. In Second Timothy, written soon after, we find Hymenaeus is up to mischief.

    2 Tim 2:16-18
    16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
    17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
    18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
    (KJV)

    Apparently, Hymenaeus was not content to make shipwreck of his own faith. Now, we find him teaching false doctrine [eschatology] and thereby overthrowing the faith of others. It was common in the early Church for people to abandon the Apostle's doctrine in order to get their own following. Paul warned the Ephesian Elders of this very thing.

    Acts 20:28-30
    28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
    29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
    Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
    (KJV)

    Paul knew, both by revelation and experience that people like Hymenaeus would abandon Christ because of a lust for fame and power. Incidentally, did you notice what Hymenaeus was teaching? He was teaching false doctrine concerning eschatology. He taught that the resurrection was already past. False doctrine can lead people away from Christ and damage their faith. Others leave because they get their eyes off Christ and His Kingdom and on the sin of materialism.

    2 Tim 4:10
    10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; ...
    (KJV)

    Paul warned Timothy extensively about the lure of materialism. Apparently, many believers had quit and become entangled in the lust for money.

    1 Tim 6:10
    10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
    (KJV)

    This brings to mind the parable of the Sower. Remember, some fell among "thorns." Jesus said the "thorns" were the cares of this world and the love of money, which after the seed has sprouted, and begun to grow, they choke the Word, and the plant dies.

    These examples of Christians who's faith failed because of a love of money or power demonstrate that the warnings in Scripture about falling away are real.
     
    #281 JSM17, Mar 29, 2009
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    137
    JSM17,
    Your position seems to be that one must be:
    born again and again and again and again. Is that so?
     
    #282 DHK, Mar 29, 2009
  3. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    64
    JSM17

    You make one statement that may be true [Post 281]: "It was common in the early Church for people to abandon the Apostle's doctrine in order to get their own following." That is definitely true today. Many denominations including the COC have abandoned the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.[Jude 1:3] and instead give heed to the commandments of men, that turn from the truth. [Titus 1:4] embracing the error [possibly heresy] of baptismal regeneration and the heresy that GOD is unable to keep eternally those who are His, contrary to the clear teaching of our Savior, Jesus Christ.
     
    #283 OldRegular, Mar 29, 2009
  4. JSM17

    JSM17 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    0
    Can you show me from my last post where this statement you have made is true.
     
    #284 JSM17, Mar 29, 2009
  5. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0


    HP: Your insinuation does not have the least iota of truth to it. Show us where anyone on this list every has stated that God is not able to keep those that are His. No one has stated or implied any such thing. You are making up your own argument out of thin air. You fight as one that beateth the air. You create a straw man argument and then try to stick in on you opponent when your opponent has neither said nor implied any such thing. If any has, show us with a quote. If you cannot, you need to retract your statement and restate it in a manner consistent with the truth.
     
    #285 Heavenly Pilgrim, Mar 29, 2009
  6. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    137
    Not just your last post, but from the tenor of most of your posts. For example, from post #52
    This quote sums up fairly well what you believe. What do we conclude from it?
    1. That one who strays from the word can never be saved again? Is that what you believe? If they can be saved again, then they would be born again and again. Right? They would keep on being born again or being saved multiple times, as many times as they stray from God, Or:

    2. They stray from God one time, and BANG! The Holy Spirit departs, never more convicts of sin; they live their lives entirely apart from God without any chance of being saved the rest of their lives. Apart from God's teaching that he is longsuffering not willing that any should perish you would still believe that a person who strays one time from God has sealed their fate forever and there remains no chance for forgiveness of sin after that.

    Both are positions are absurdities. I hope you can see that.
    The only logical and Biblical position is the eternal security of the believer.
     
    #286 DHK, Mar 29, 2009
  7. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0


    HP: I know you are speaking to JSM17 here, but shall we get fair? I have attended plenty of services that call on making a 'recommitment' over and over and over again. Where is the Biblical mandate for that concept? Scripture does speak of ‘doing ones first works over again.’ Tell us what that means? Then, show us one passage that ever speaks of the ‘recommitment’ we hear of on almost an every Sunday occasion in many churches.
     
    #287 Heavenly Pilgrim, Mar 29, 2009
  8. JSM17

    JSM17 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    0
    First it is not a I sinned once and "BANG" I no longer have the H.S. I believe that 1 John 1:7 declares that when we sin and if confess our sins then we are covered by the blood of Christ and remain in the light.

    What does it mean to quench the Spirit?
    1 Thess 5:19
    19 Do not quench the Spirit.
    NKJV

    NT:4570
    sbennumi (sben'-noo-mee); a prolonged form of an apparently primary verb; to extinguish (literally or figuratively):
    KJV - go out, quench.
     
    #288 JSM17, Mar 29, 2009
  9. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    64
    Make up your mind what you believe HP.

     
    #289 OldRegular, Mar 29, 2009
  10. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    4
    To "quench" the Spirit means that we are not to ignore the gifts of the Holy Spirit. His spiritual gifts are to be used. But God does not force us to use them. To quench the Spirit is to have a gift given by God and refuse to use it.

    Do you really think that you have authority over God's Spirit and can snuff Him out?? You cannot make God leave you. You do not have the authority to do that.
     
    #290 Amy.G, Mar 29, 2009
  11. InChrist

    InChrist New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is GOD, through the sacrifice of Christ Jesus, who reconciles (puts to right; settles; reunites) us to Himself. Faith in His once for all offered reconciliation is the activating agent of that reconciliation in each individual's life. At the point of a believer's salvation, when we are reconciled to God, there is an exchange that takes place. Our sin (past, present, future because remember the sacrifice was ONCE for ALL)

    is placed upon Jesus Christ... He who knew no sin, became sin for us.... and we in turn are clothed with HIS righteousness.

    We have been washed by the blood of the Lamb. We have been redeemed! The righteousness of Christ which we ARE clothed with, is WITHOUT blemish and WITHOUT spot, and is NOT corruptible!

    If His blood, His righteousness COULD be blemished, then the sacrificial offering of His life for the world, would be without effect for ANYBODY!

    Upon salvation we are imputed with HIS righteousness.

    And upon the cross, Jesus Christ was imputed with the sin OF THE WHOLE WORLD... past, present and future

    This is the exchange that takes place at the point of salvation.

    Once the gift exchange, of Jesus Christ's life for ours, has been truly accepted, then the blood of Christ, with which we have been clothed CANNOT be corrupted EVER. To say that our salvation CAN be corrupted goes against the cross of Calvary and what The Lord's death achieved, and undermines the blood and the righteousness of the very Word of God Himself.
     
    #291 InChrist, Mar 29, 2009
  12. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    InChrist, I certainly disagree with your conclusions, but I appreciate the spirit of your post. You said all of that without calling others liars, blasphemers, or telling them that they are calling God or the Word of God a liar. The manner in which you present your beliefs is a credit to this list and is the reasonable manner in which clearly exhibits how Christians can debate without personally attacking another. Thank you. :thumbs:
     
    #292 Heavenly Pilgrim, Mar 30, 2009
  13. Martin Luther

    Martin Luther New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0


    The KJV is packed with errors.
     
    #293 Martin Luther, Mar 30, 2009
  14. Martin Luther

    Martin Luther New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0


    Excellent point, it is unimaginable how anyone could see it any different. It must be pure spiritual blindness. The Pharisees also thought they were 100% safe by following the law.
     
    #294 Martin Luther, Mar 30, 2009
  15. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    28
    Pass them along...
     
    #295 ReformedBaptist, Mar 30, 2009
  16. Martin Luther

    Martin Luther New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0


    Reread post 266 & 267, also Google the “preface to Young’s literal translation". Robert Young shows with perfect clarity that the KJV translators were not interested in preserving an inspired copy. He in fact refers to them as revisers.
     
    #296 Martin Luther, Mar 30, 2009
  17. JSM17

    JSM17 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    0
    Quench means to put out, I did not mean that I believe that we can snuff the H.S out. You act as if God forces us to remain in the Spirit if we wish not to be. I can quench the H.S. just like I can grieve the H.S.

    1 Thess 5:16-22

    16 Rejoice always;

    17 pray without ceasing;

    18 in everything give thanks; for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus.

    19 Do not quench the Spirit;

    20 do not despise prophetic utterances.

    21 But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good;

    22 abstain from every form of evil.
    NASU


    Quench means to put out. Notice how one does this, by despising utterances, By not examines everyting carefully, not holding fast to that which is good and not abstaining from every evil.

    Stephen said that the fathers always resisted the Holy Spirit, were they overpowering God? Did they have the authority to do that?

    Resist, Grieve, Quench, these are just a few thingd that we can do, the scipture delcares it.
     
    #297 JSM17, Mar 30, 2009
  18. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    4
    The context of the passage regarding "quenching the Holy Spirit" is spiritual gifts. That is what Paul is addressing. We can and sometimes do fail to use the gifts God has given us.

    Resisting the Holy Spirit that Stephen was talking about is in regard to salvation. Quenching the Spirit in the context that Paul was speaking about has nothing to do with salvation.
     
    #298 Amy.G, Mar 30, 2009
  19. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yep, that's what happens when you let Scripture speak. :thumbsup:
     
    #299 TCGreek, Mar 30, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 30, 2009
  20. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0


    HP: That is pure conjecture without the least bit of reasonable support. There is simply no end to the desperate attempts to support ones presupposition of OSAS.
     
    #300 Heavenly Pilgrim, Mar 30, 2009
Page 15 of 16
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...