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Who has not failed?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by steaver, Feb 12, 2010.

?

Have you broken any of God's commandments since rebirth?

  1. Yes

    39 vote(s)
    97.5%

  2. No

    1 vote(s)
    2.5%
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  1. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Indeed I get the idea and it helps a great deal. :thumbs:

    I must say I stand corrected in my thoughts. I thought for sure you would not be willing to say that the person in my hypothetical would be going to hell.

    This is exactly what I purposed to expose in the SDA teachings. The SDA believes that even though a person has faith in God and has been born of God this faith is void if the person dies in an act of rebellion against God (sin).

    This is not the gospel of Jesus Christ. By grace ye are saved through faith and this not of yourselves it is the gift of God.

    The SDA preaches another gospel. Faith only counts if the person is sinless.

    :jesus:
     
    #221 steaver, Apr 17, 2010
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    The ones that are declared to be blind in the following case - and thus covered under the grace - the provision made for them in that case --


    Are not the willfully boldly defiant that would fit this next case -

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #222 BobRyan, Apr 17, 2010
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Turns out that Jesus WAS preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ when HE said "Not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will ENTER the kingdom of heaven - but he who DOES the will of My Father" - Matt 7

    Turns out Paul WAS preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ when he said in Romans 2 "according to my gospel" -- God will judge without partiality such that "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law WILL BE JUSTIFIED".

    Turns out John WAS preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ when he said "The one who SAYS that he knows Christ and does not KEEP His commandments is a liar" 1 John 2.

    Those who would accuse John and Paul and Christ of preaching "another gospel" as you have done - are simply missing one or two glaring and not-so-subtle details of scripture.

    Your "then you must be sinless to be saved" nonsequiter does not work at all in that case.

    Hope that helps. Try to avoid going there - and your argument is that much more Biblically accurate- so a win-win.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #223 BobRyan, Apr 17, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 17, 2010
  4. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    So you have said many times. This error is unique to SDA theology alone and is a result of not understanding the foundation of salvation as you demonstrated in your answer to my hypothetical.

    SDA theology has a Christian's sin canceling out their faith in Christ. This is "another gospel". Jesus came to save the sinner. In your SDA model a Christian's sin trumps the Christian's faith.

    Red-herrings cannot save your theology. Posting scriptures that you do not understand does not equate to me accusing Jesus or the Apostles of preaching another gospel.

    Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved is the foundation of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

    Your gospel goes like this; Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and do not sin and thou shall be saved.

    SDA doctrine preaches that commandment keeping trumps faith. Without sinlessness faith does not count. This is "another gospel". It does not matter how many scriptures you post in ignorance of this. The true gospel of Jesus Christ is faith triumps over sin. Not the SDA's other way around.

    Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.........

    Gal 3:17............And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

    SDA doctrine has the Law, if not kept, disannuling the promise by faith.

    :jesus:
     
    #224 steaver, Apr 17, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 17, 2010
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    The ones that are declared to be blind in the following case - and thus covered under the grace - the provision made for them in that case --

    Are not the willfully boldly defiant that would fit this next case -

    ============================================

    The objective unbiased reader finds your logic to be "illusive" at that point.

    Needs some work.

    :godisgood:
    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #225 BobRyan, Apr 18, 2010
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Steaver -

    In answer to your hypothetical (of the form) -- someone says "I see that God does not want me to eat diseased flesh and rat sandwiches when I read Leviticus 11 - but I don't care what God says - I like doing what I am doing and God is not going to stop ME" -

    I gave the answer:

    They have a problem right then and there - it does not matter if they "die the next day from eating that diseased flesh" or not.

    As well as the confirming Bible answer

    Bible texts which you complained about as not being Christ's Gospel -

    So I responded -

    Your "then you must be sinless to be saved" nonsequiter does not work at all in that case.

    Hope that helps. Try to avoid going there - and your argument is that much more Biblically accurate- so a win-win
    ===================================


    And then innexplicably - you came back with your classic Bible-is-a-red-herring response -

    Again your logic is simply "illusive" as a response to the obvious texts given above.


    How does it help for you to 'quote you' to make your case against the list of texts that so clearly refute your positions? I never said "you must be sinless to be saved".

    You seem to be at a point where making stuff up as a last resort for defending your views.

    Again - I find your logic to be illusive at that point.

    Have another run at it.

    :jesus:

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #226 BobRyan, Apr 18, 2010
  7. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Not just "someone". You have to pay attention to the details of my hypothetical.

    Your SDA view is that anyone who says they have faith in Christ and eats swine knowing what Leviticus 11 says about swine is a liar and therefore not saved. This would include myself and probably everyone on this board except for yourself.

    :jesus:
     
    #227 steaver, Apr 18, 2010
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    If your intent is to quote me - then what I said was ...

    If your complaint is that you believe that people who willingly choose to defy the Word of God (as noted in the statement above) should be "once saved always saved - anyway" - then you are right to point out that I do not believe in the man-made tradition of once-saved always saved.

    If your imagined argument is that Adventists are the only Christians on this area of the BB making the Arminian argument for Perseverance instead of the false teaching of OSAS - then you have not been paying much attention at all to the OSAS threads.

    Take your pick.

    :godisgood:

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #228 BobRyan, Apr 18, 2010
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Your statement below appears to argue that the "someone" mentioned in that scenario above is you -

    Are you sure you are willing to take a flying leap off of that cliff as if you "see what you are doing"??

    Christ said this of those who were thinking it was ok to defy the Word of God -

    Christ said "IF you were blind you would not have sin - but you say that you see - so your sin remains" John 9:41

    I don't know if you are really in the dire situation that you so willingly choose to paint yourself as being in or not.

    But I know what God's Word says.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #229 BobRyan, Apr 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2010
  10. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Are you saying that you then changed my hypothetical replacing it with your own and then gave answer to your quote instead of mine?

    That is called a red-herring.

    Maybe you would like to go back to my original quote and give an answer to it instead of throwing up your own scenario and then giving an answer.

    Otherwise I must assume that your answer was given on MY hypothetical not yours. If this is not the case then you need to re-read my question and start a fresh.

    Here it is, maybe we can start over...

    Red-herrings. Stay on point.

    :jesus:
     
    #230 steaver, Apr 19, 2010
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Turns out - the Bible is not "a red herring" when it comes to the subject of rebellion against the Word of God by a born-again Christian - who then loses salvation.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #231 BobRyan, Apr 19, 2010
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    And I responded to the core of your question -

    And then you accepted it and stated that this is the very problem you take issue with - that you feel the person described as being in rebellion against what they know to be the Word of God above - should be OSAS-OK.


    So then I took your "that Bible is NOT the Gospel" idea and showed your error -

     
    #232 BobRyan, Apr 19, 2010
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