Death penalty for fellow Christians

I am not sure if that is a left-handed compliment or a back handed slap. :laugh:

Are you implying that you keep all the commandments in the Bible?

For instance, do you keep three festivals:

Exodus 23:14

New International Version (NIV)

14 “Three times a year you are to celebrate a festival to me.

Here is a particularly good one IMHO:

By the way to execute an innocent person is murder and one of the commandments is "Thou shalt not murder."

There are something over 600 commands in the OT alone.

Leviticus 19:18

New International Version (NIV)

18 “‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.

 

It was not my understanding then nor now that he was referring to the Passage in 1 John. However If he was he totally destroyed its meaning as it has nothing what so ever to do with the death penalty.

 

You say that with such assurity. Can you show that to be so?

 

I do not ignore any of the commandments that are for us today. To suggest that someone is not keeping them because you list things that are not applicable is simply improper.
So to answer your question do I keep the commandments, yes.
1John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

But did I understand you correct to say you ignore some commandments?;
1John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

The problem is that no scripture or group of scriptures can ever be understood without two things;
1. The guidance and input of the Holy Spirit. (The Holy Spirit will, indeed, show different people different angles on any given subject but just as any scripture will not contradict any other scripture, when read in context, neither will the teaching of the Spirit of God when teaching any two of His children. They might be different but they will compliment one another and never contradict!
2. And finally, no scripture can be understood without the light of all scripture shinning on it!

Just as I said previously, you need to apply both rules before attempting to understand the Meat of the Word. Some have tried to teach me that it is merciful to accept the idea of Homosexuality as just another life-style that is acceptable to God and that I fail to show them mercy when I teach what the scriptures teach us about their going to the Bottomless Pit for Eternity.

You indicate, by your statement that I am merciless when at the time she was in prison but the truth of the matter is that I went there, inside Lock Up, and helped as many as I could influence to accept the gift of Christ. I am no longer going because I must ride my Powered Chair and can no longer get inside without someone to drive me there and then unload and reassemble the chair they had to disassemble to get it into their car. Then the DCoJ must approve of me entering into the General Population and the State must put in Handicap Ramps, just for me.

May I ask what you were doing to help, show mercy, for these people at that time and what are you doing now to fill the gap left in my absence?

Did the Omniscient, Omnipotent God need your advise to create the Universe and did you instruct God on how to create man, did you give Him the dirt He needed? (Psa 46:10)

No, quite the contrary! When we take our own fate into our own hands we are doomed to eternity in Hell. In Mic.3:6a we learn that God never changes and if we take the time to do as we are instructed (2Tim. 2:15) and study the Bible, Jesus and all the disciples taught from, the Old Testament we find that we need to stand still and to know that HE is God.

What you propose is to disobey Jesus! In John 1:1-3 we learn that Jesus is the God that created everything! Jesus is the God of the Old Testament! Now, if you will bother to take the time to read, slowly, with prayer and meditation, the entire Bible you will notice that Jesus, Paul and the eleven, continually, quoted the Old Testament in their teaching. This clearly demonstrates that the Bible Jesus used is the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament) and the writings (the four Gospels, the letters and the Revelation of Jesus) are a commentary on that Bible, the best Life Application Commentary ever written.

Every syllable of the Old Testament is the Word of Jesus/God.

And I for your understanding.

 

is that the verse where the Apostle John ask uis to pray for other believers SAVE for the case of one who has commited a sin unto death?

Why wouldn't it be referencing a saint who is facing due justice for his crime?

And didn't God do "capital penalty" in Acts on those 2 who lied against Holy Spirit?

 

My question exactly.

 

Yes I can, but to do an exegetical answer to the passage would high jack the thread. I will say that the passage is dealing with Gnostics who claim they are brothers yet they have never sinned.

 

No it is not asking prayer for believers. It is asking prayer for unbelievers who claim to be believers. It is about the Gnostics. A believer is going to heaven and does not need prayer for salvation.

 

Are yoyu saying that the Apostle john was not in the truth here?

Clearly refers to us as believers In Christ to make prayer intercessions on behalf of others, so that they may be restored back to fellowship with God!

See 1 John 5:16, as John calls them brothers in the faith!

Sounds like true christians to me!

 

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No I am saying you are misunderstanding the passage. He uses the word brother but not because they are saved. The whole letter is to combat the Gnostics teachings who claim to be brothers and at the end he telling the real Christians to pray for these "brothers" who are not saved.
The passage has absolutely nothing to do with the death penalty. In fact it has nothing to do with a real Christian.

 

Methinks you are reading a whoooole lot into the passage. I'd be interested to know your 'exegetical answer' in another thread.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

Wow, once again, methinks you are reading a whoooole lot into the passage.

 

can you show ANY other examople in the NT where the Apsotle John or any other Apostle used brother to refer to a non beliver?

They would say the 'so called' brother, but nevr directly address a non saved as being one!

 

I would say this is a critical point to establish. If 'brother' does not always mean 'brother in the Lord', but can also be in reference to the unregenerate, then where does that leave us in our interpretation of the NT?

 

Perhaps this will help a bit ....

 

Some stats on how the greek work "Adelphon" used by God in NT!

KJV (346) - brethren, 226; brother, 113; brother's, 6; brother's way, 1;
NAS (173) - believing husband, 1; brethren, 13; brother, 111; brother's, 8; brothers, 40;


NEVER used to refer to one who is NOT a believer in Christ!

Think that to prove john refering to Gnostic here, one would have to be a Gnostic themselves!

 

I agree that the context is concerning prayer. I even agree with FAL that the 'sin unto death' includes apostasy (as in Heb 6:4-6). What I don't agree with FAL on is hiis rejection of the idea that it includes ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS [v 17], such as a crime that is punishable by death that is committed by a redeemed, born from above, brother in the Lord.

[edit] I've said it before, I'll say it again; you can tell just what a redeemed, born from above child of God is capable of doing by everything they're told not to do in the Book.

 

Good work JF!

No, FAL is not a Gnostic. He's just wrong on this point.

 

Not saying that he is, just saying that one would have to be one IF they made that claim with absolute certainity!