Featured A rather complete list of warning Scriptures against OSAS

I don't know what to think of you brother. Twice now I have answered your challenge and twice now you have backed out.

You have made the assertion that 65 scriptures refute OSAS. This actually places the onus on you to produce your exegesis to back this claim up. Just posting proof text does not suffice.

God says "study to show thyself approved, rightly dividing the word of truth" (2Tim2:15) , but you say no, to God, this is not necessary Lord.

I asked you twice now and you have ignored my question. Do you sin Evangel? How often would you say you sin? Once a year, once a month, once a day, a few times a day, etc. ?

 

Jesus told us that we have ETERNAl LIFE when he saves us, that he will NOT cast out ANY who come unto Him, and IF our friend is right, Peter and John both lost their ertenal life, BOTH sinned against the Lord!

 

A few texts fully debunking OSAS as man-made tradition.

[FONT=&quot]Ezek 18
19 “Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?’ Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live.

20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
21 “But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

22 None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live.
23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live?
24 “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.
25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? 26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies.

27 Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. 28 Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

29 Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair?


In the examples above God is not arbitrarily casting any out - rather the individuals themselves are turning away from God. "Fallen from Grace - severed FROM Christ" Gal 5:4


And of course let's not avoid Christ's teaching in Romans 11




Rom 11
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.

21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.

22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off


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[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]"Forgiveness revoked" model as Matt 18

Matt 18
32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.




It works on the same model as Romans 11


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Romans 11


18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness andseverity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.


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Our Methodist/Wesleyan/Seventh-day Adventist/Arminian General Baptist (and of course - Free Will Baptist) friends will notice that the language above is missing the "legally obligated to take those who do not persevere firm to the end" to heaven language.

Just as we see in Ezek 18 - no change.

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A few more in favor of perseverance

Matt 10:22 but it is he who has endured until the end that will be saved.


1 Timothy 4:16
Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.


Heb 2:1-3
1. For this reason we must pay close attention to what have heard lest we drift away from it


Heb 3:6 but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence
and the boast of our hope firm until the end.


Heb 3:12-14
12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called ""Today,'' so that none of you will be hardened
by the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,


Heb 10:35-39
35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.
37 FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.
38 BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.
39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

1Cor 15:1-2
1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received,
in which also you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
Rom 11:22
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness,
if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Col 1:21-23
22 He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death in order to PRESENT you before Him
Holy and Blameless and beyond reproach
23 IF INDEED you CONTINUE in the faith FIRMLY established and STEADFAST and NOT MOVED AWAY
from the HOPE of the Gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven
and of which I Paul was made a minister.


Rev 2:7,11,17,26 3:5, 12,21 Eternal life to 'he who overcomes'.

Gal 6:7-9 Don't lose heart in doing good for reap et life IF we ..
8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the
Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
9 Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.

Mark 13:13 Belief + enduring to the END = SAVED
Matthew 24:13 ""But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved."
Matthew 10:22 "You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one
who has endured to the end who will be saved."

 

2Peter 1:10-11
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true
knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as
you practice these things, you will never stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.


1 Timothy 4:16
Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.



1Cor 9
23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached (the Gospel) to others, I myself will not be disqualified



Phil 3
7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ.
8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,
9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;
11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
​

 

sauntification, NOTHING to do with our justification to God!

We are to become more like jesus in thought and in deed, but NOT to get/kept saved by that!

Also, MANY of those 'warning passages" refer to either making sure that one is really saved, confirmed by their works/behaviour,or else warning to stop/not get involved in "worldliness"

 

Heb 12:14
Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord

 

Any fool can supply a list of scriptures but it is quite another thing to demonstrate the superficial inference refers to your intentions for using them. None of the above texts when considered in their context supports your usage of them. For example, the first passage above in Peter is speaking of an "abundant" entrance rather than obtaining entrance (v. 11). You don't' understand that salvation is not monolithic but is three-fold corresponding to the whole of humanity - spirit (past tense) soul/life(present tense) body (future tense). Instead you simply confuse the aspects and tenses and confuse the texts that deal with each. Losing and gaining salvation is possible in regard to the present tense aspect which deals with redeeming the "time" - Eph. 5:16 and the present tense life of the believer.

 

As always - your argument is "with the text" - the mere quote of them gives rise to your strong objection and acrimony.

You find it "necessary" to downsize each of them.

Not at all true "in fact". But a great illustration of trying to "Downsize the text so that OSAS may be able to survive it.

Peter is arguing for entrance - or not. He is not arguing for "easy entrance vs more difficult entrance".

That contrast is not at all to be found in the text so you 'make it up' as a way to downsize the level of significance of the text - with the hope that OSAS can survive the downsized text.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Christ said that "in Him we have life and that more abundantly" - as opposed to "in Christ you have better life than the eternal life and heaven that you get without Christ" -

Downsizing these texts does not work.


2Peter 1:10-11
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true
knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as
you practice these things, you will never stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.


1 Timothy 4:16
Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.

 

Not in the least bit! It is not the mere quote that gives rise to my rejection. It is YOU quoting them in the context of your ANTI-OSAS post that gives rise to my rejection!

I could quote John 5:24, Jn. 6:37-39, Jn. 10:26-30 and ellicit the same response from you that you accuse me. Merely Listing texts is stupidity at work.

 

Originally Posted by BobRyan
As always - your argument is "with the text" - the mere quote of them gives rise to your strong objection and acrimony.

Here is the post that you quote - that gives rise to your objections --

The mere quote of the texts because we both know that OSAS does not survive them and in each case you would need to seek out ways to downsize them from their direct and apparent meaning to something "less than" such that OSAS might possibly survive the downsized form of them.

================================


2Peter 1:10-11
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true
knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as
you practice these things, you will never stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.


1 Timothy 4:16
Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.



1Cor 9
23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached (the Gospel) to others, I myself will not be disqualified



Phil 3
7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ.
8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,
9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;
11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

 

So, My objection is with the text? So, the mere mention of certain texts raises objections and causes to down size what they say, Huh? So immediate context means nothing huh??? Well, then try these on for size and let's observe your reactions!


Jn. 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jn. 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Jn. 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
30 I and my Father are one.

Philip. 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Philip. 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Heb. 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

1 Jn. 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Heb. 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;

Psa. 89:29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.

Jd 24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Rom. 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 ¶ For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 ¶ What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

 

you do realise that paul warned against forfeiting eternal rewards, losing your crowns, shipwreaking your faith etc NONE of that was losing of salvation!

 

Paul never says that "Shipwreck of faith" is "nothing more than losing a few toys in heaven" - rather the shipwreck of faith is the loss of salvation.

Paul never says that "losing your crown" is simply the "Loss of some toys in heaven" but rather - the loss of eternal life.

In 1cor 9 Paul buffets his body in his desire to "be a fellow partaker" in the Gospel.

not "A fellow partaker in toys in heaven".

1 Timothy 4:16
Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.



1Cor 9
23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached (the Gospel) to others, I myself will not be disqualified



in Christ,

Bob

 

Mark 10:30

King James Version (KJV)
30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.



Luke 18:30

New American Standard Bible (NASB)
30 who will not receive many times as much at this time and in the age to come, eternal life.”


1 John 2:24-25

King James Version (KJV)

24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.


Romans 2
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

 

Whats the matter Bob, does the cat got your tongue????

 

you seem to expect me to object to the Gospel. I don't.

I simply point to the Bible warnings that stop us from going to the eisegetical extremes of Calvinism when it comes to the man-made-traditions of OSAS.

None of the texts in your list - eliminate free will and the requirement to "persevere in doing well" Romans 2 for the saints.

in Christ,

Bob

 

So, My objection is with the text? So, the mere mention of certain texts raises objections and causes to down size what they say, Huh? So immediate context means nothing huh??? Well, then try these on for size and let's observe your reactions to scriptures that teach OSAS and deny the loss of salvation to any truly saved!


Jn. 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jn. 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Jn. 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
30 I and my Father are one.

Philip. 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Philip. 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Heb. 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

1 Jn. 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Heb. 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;

Psa. 89:29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.

Jd 24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Rom. 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 ¶ For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 ¶ What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

 

The saved are the ones who in Romans 8 put to death the deeds of the flesh - by the Holy Spirit. That is "the Power of God".

But it does not nullify the Bible warning against falling from Grace, being severed from Christ, cut off and tossed into the fire - lost, if we do not choose to persevere, to endure firm unto the end each day.

Your idea of deleting the part of the Bible that you don't like by taking one of your texts to an extreme - simply does not work.

in Christ,

Bob