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Creation vs. Evolution Discuss Creation vs. Evolution here.

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Old 07-22-2004, 09:55 PM
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BobRyan BobRyan is offline
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Bob said --
The believers in evolutionism will counter with "but pretend you did not notice those details -- pretend you only started reading the Bible in the account where God is already TALKING to mankind in the garden".
This is a direct reference to the attempt previously made to pretend that the Genesis "Account" of the origin of ALL life forms on earth -- only "actually" addressed [b]"man and God and our relationship,".[/n]

Galatian said --

News to me. Never heard anyone say that before.
Hmmm. "Pretend not to get the point"...

I think I have already seen that one.


Barbarian observes that Genesis is only:
... about man and God and our relationship,

That's what it's for. It was never intended to be a science textbook. And you will be continuously misled if you try to make it one.


Galatian said --
I'm pretty sure God had no concern at all for science as a subject.
Hmmm - science is the study of what God made -- nature. But God had "no interest" in telling us about what He made -- nature. So we have to JUNK the Bible and opt for the word of humanism instead when it comes to NATURE - the thing God MADE and the account God GIVES about making NATURE on this planet.

Yes - that makes "perfect sense" -- thank you for showing us the inner working of the evolutionist's mind on this point.

It is always helpful to know how the other side is thinking.

Bob -- I realize that this is a favored fairytale for the believers in evolutionism. What I don't understand is "HOW" they think it is a compelling argument to "pretend" we don't actually READ the details in scripture where God explicitly addressing God MAKING all forms of life.
Galatian said
Actually, it says that the earth and waters brought forth life.
Not "of their own".

Rahter the text said "GOD MADE" the heavens and the earth AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM.

Even more - it bounds each of the days with ONE evening and morning.

And then - in only SIX DAYS - completes the entire project.

Sounds nothing like evolution to me.

God created all things. The difference between you and most Christians, is that we accept the way He did it.

In Christ,

When reason vacates in regard to a given subject, the only weapons of argument left are in the hands of emotion. The simplest emotional weapons to wield are name-calling ,disparaging remarks, vitriol and acrimony for those deemed adversaries. All such ad hominem tactics provide nothing of persuasive substance, except to those whose reason has also been vacated on that same subject.
Old 07-22-2004, 10:34 PM
UTEOTW UTEOTW is offline
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"We saw that with entropy. Even the evolutionists Isaac Asimov clearly admitted what science SEES (local INCREASEs in entropy) with what evolutionism "needs" -- (Massive DECREASES in local entropy)."

I'll give you one last chance before the thread closes.

Give me one step, any step, in the evolution of man from a single celled organism prevented by entropy and why.

I'd bet I still will not get answer. I don't feel like pointing the flaws in your reasoning out again, so I'll just leave it at that. A simple question which you will not answer.
Old 07-22-2004, 10:34 PM
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The Galatian The Galatian is offline
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Barbarian observes:
However, Genesis directly contradicts the "Ex nihilo" claims of young Earth creationism, because it says that the earth and waters brought forth living things.

This is another red herring.
Nope. It's God's Word. You should accept it, reagardless of you personal desires. God says that the earth brought forth living things. YE creationism says that God created them from nothing. You can pick God's word that they were brought forth from the earth, or man's doctrine that they were created from nothing. Up to you.

Evolutionism dies a horrible death in "SIX evenings and mornings".
Fortunately, it's still quite vigorous. In fact, every so often, we get another prominent creationist like Michael Denton to see the light and accept God's creation.

Every atheist evolutionist on the planet would admit that.
Atheists, like YE creationists, have an axe to grind. They want to make science incompatible with religion.

Obviously the Bible does not promote evolution or speak to it except to say "The fool has said in his heart - there is no God".
Barbarian observes:
You've confused atheism and science.

No you have confused evolutionism with science. They aren't the same thing.
Evolutionary theory, because it depends on evidence, is a science. Creationism, because it depends only on faith, is a religion.

Meaning that the fool must then account for all of life and nature "without God" as the explanation.
Science does not, and cannot account for the origin of nature itself. That is beyond the reach of science.

Actually -- "yes".
Sorry. Science can't do that for you. For that, you need other ways of knowing. Science can only tell you about the physical universe, not how it came about. It can neither deny nor confirm God. Scientists who believe in God cannot use science to support their beliefs. It is too weak a system for that.

IF there IS NO God - then ALL that the fool sees on earth -- he must account for by some "other means" than divine creation.
Science can only use scientific means. But scientists can be theists, and most of them are. Science does not require one believe there is no God.

But even worse for evolutionism - good science flatly contradicts the speculative myths of evolutionism.
THe vast majority of scientists disagree with you. You aren't a scientist, are you? Perhaps if you learned more about science, it would be useful for you.

We saw that with entropy. Even the evolutionists Isaac Asimov clearly admitted what science SEES (local INCREASEs in entropy) with what evolutionism "needs" -- (Massive DECREASES in local entropy).
I see massive decreases in local entropy every day. Sometimes I wish it wasn't so massive. I would certainly appreciated the grass being less vigorous about decreasing local entropy.

To establish your claim, you might consider answering UTEOTW's challenge above. Show what essential process of evoltution is ruled out by the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Show your work.

We saw that again with the lack of mono-chiral results in all experiments used today to produce proteins for cell "building blocks".
In fact, we find that many of the naturally occuring amino acids in the Murchison meteorite have an excess of L-forms, just as abiogenesis predicted.

Learning about the specifics would definitely help you in these debates.
Old 07-23-2004, 03:19 PM
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Gina B Gina B is offline
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Originally posted by Brett:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gina L:
Physical evidence doesn't lie? That's a VERY silly and invalid argument. Evidence can be misunderstood, altered, or able to be understood only partially, as so clearly evidenced by changing technology that shows how much we don't know.
Wrong. If you had read your post over before hitting the reply button, you'd have realized that the Bible itself has been misunderstood or been understood only partially! The debates we have here about calvinism vs arminianism, as well as other biblical issues, demonstrates this. Does this mean that the Bible lies? </font>[/QUOTE]The one thing we know is infallible doesn't go by the same laws, but it can very well mean things we don't realize that it means, or mean something we may not understand until it comes to pass, and then we will realize what that prophecy was speaking of.

Now, I hate to do this to you and not give you a chance to reply, but the thread is now closed. Feel free to transfer what I said to another thread if you feel you have something to add to it, ok?



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