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Tongues as the evidence of the Holy Spirit is not Biblical

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Lorelei, Jan 7, 2002.

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  1. Lorelei

    Lorelei <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

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    In the other thread about speaking in tongues, I asked a question that I would like to have answered.

    How can you prove scripturally that tongues is the evidence of the Holy Spirit if there is no reference that states this fact? You can't say because that is how they did it in the book of Acts, when you will find only 3 references to someone speaking in tongues at the moment of salvation. How then, can one attest that ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE, one must speak in tongues at the moment of salvation?

    Some people have tried to say that Acts 11:15 states that we all receive the Holy Spirit the way the Apostles did, but let's look at these verses.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Acts 11:15 "As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning."
    16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: `John baptized with[1] water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
    17
    So if God gave them the same gift as he gave us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could oppose God?"
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The emphasis in context was not "how" they received the Holy Spirit, just that they actually did receive it. They were Gentiles and until this time, the Spirit had only been given to Jews and Samaritans (half breed Jews). Yes, they did speak in tongues, and why do you think it was such a surprise to everyone? Why do you think that it is now that Peter is remembering what "the Lord had said". Because not everyone did speak in tongues when they receieved his message before, but these people did! Why? To prove to the Jews that it was of God. (As Paul said, tongues were for a sign! 1 Corinthians 14:22)

    Note that Peter says:

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    He doesn't say "the Holy Spirit came on them as he does on everyone else". There is a great difference and a special significance to these verses.

    Here are 4 places in Acts where it does not say the people spoke in tongues when they were saved. Acts 2:38-47; Acts 4:4; Acts 16:14-15; Acts 16:30-34

    There are only 3 references that say that they did. Acts 2:1-16 (the apostles) Acts 10:42-48; Acts 19:1-7

    So where does it say that speaking in tongues is the evidence of having received the Holy Spirit? If it is only "implied" then why isn't it "implied" in all circumstances?

    I can find no Biblical evidence as to this fact, therefore it is not scriptural and therefore is a false doctrine.

    ~Lorelei

    [ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: Lorelei ]
     
    #1 Lorelei, Jan 7, 2002
  2. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    Um I dont have an answer for you yet. But I posted the question on a diffrent board and I am going to see what they say. And I will get back to you. Looks like we are both going to get educated
     
    #2 ONENESS, Jan 7, 2002
  3. CatholicConvert

    CatholicConvert New Member

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    Yeah, I'll be right interested in seeing this theological tap dance myself, since I am in agreement with Loreli.

    I find it more than humorous to watch the gymnastics some folk do to avoid the obvious.

    Lookin' forward to it!!

    :D

    Cordially in Christ,

    Brother Ed
     
    #3 CatholicConvert, Jan 7, 2002
  4. Lorelei

    Lorelei <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

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    ONENESS,

    I thank you for honestly seeking an answer. I look forward to hearing what the others have to say.

    I am also hoping that MEE will respond to this thread. I made a mistake and said that MEE didn't know the answer to this question and he pointed out that he had never said he didn't know. So I ask you MEE, if you do know the answer, please share it with us here.

    ~Lorelei
     
    #4 Lorelei, Jan 7, 2002
  5. Lorelei

    Lorelei <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

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    Nothing huh? Guess I shouldn't ask the impossible. You can't prove it biblically because it just isn't there.

    ~Lorelei
     
    #5 Lorelei, Jan 9, 2002
  6. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    Nope you are not asking the impossible you are asking the busy people. I will reply to you as soon as i get a chance
     
    #6 ONENESS, Jan 10, 2002
  7. atestring

    atestring New Member

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    Why is there so much interest in this subject?
     
    #7 atestring, Jan 11, 2002
  8. ONENESS

    ONENESS New Member

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    B.C THERE IS SO MUCH TRUTH BEHIND IT AND PEOPLE JUST CANT ACCEPT THE FACT THAT IT IS STILL FOR US TODAY.
     
    #8 ONENESS, Jan 12, 2002
  9. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ONENESS:
    B.C THERE IS SO MUCH TRUTH BEHIND IT AND PEOPLE JUST CANT ACCEPT THE FACT THAT IT IS STILL FOR US TODAY.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    "TRUTH?" That's what is in the Word of God. Proof that speaking in tongues is evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit? Or that it is even a legitimate gift for today? That is what we are still waiting for.
    DHK
     
    #9 DHK, Jan 12, 2002
  10. Lorelei

    Lorelei <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

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    Why is there so much interest? Because I tire of going to threads and have people state something as fact and yet they never offer any evidence to back it up. When confronted with it, well you can see for yourself the response. They ignore it and try to let it die, so that they can go to yet another thread and spread the lie some more.

    ONENESS,

    You said it is not impossible to answer this Biblically, you are just too busy to find out. You admit earlier that you don't know the answer so you are waiting for others to answer it for you.

    I would ask you this, why do you already beleive this as truth when you admit you can't show me Biblically why? You believe what you have been taught or told or experienced, not what that Bible or the Holy Spirit has shown you.

    As for busy people, I do understand that and have the same problem myself. I won't be able to keep up with the responses myself for awhile. We leave tomorrow for my daughter's surgery and we will gone a week or more.

    When I posted this almost a week ago, I assumed that those who were so adamant that this were true would have been able to show me within a day or so. I didn't think it would take that long to show us something you believe so solidly as truth. I didn't think they would have to go to others for answers. If it's so True where is the proof? The proof isn't there, which you admit, yet you still will not admit that you are wrong. :confused:

    ~Lorelei
     
    #10 Lorelei, Jan 12, 2002
  11. syzito

    syzito Guest

    Being raised in the AOG church I have had plenty of experience with the issue of tongues, and what the pentecostals and charismatics practice today are not biblical tongues.Number one all the 50 times mentioned in the NT it relates to either the physical organ...the tongue;or it refers to real human languages.It never refers to gibberish or babble.The misapplication and misinterpreted of scripture by these groups is simply appalling.That is why after studing the issue for myself I am now a Baptist. :D
     
    #11 syzito, Jan 12, 2002
  12. MEE

    MEE <img src=/me3.jpg>

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by syzito:
    Being raised in the AOG church I have had plenty of experience with the issue of tongues, and what the pentecostals and charismatics practice today are not biblical tongues.Number one all the 50 times mentioned in the NT it relates to either the physical organ...the tongue;or it refers to real human languages.It never refers to gibberish or babble.The misapplication and misinterpreted of scripture by these groups is simply appalling.That is why after studing the issue for myself I am now a Baptist. :D<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Syzito, let me ask you one thing! Did you ever receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues?

    I don't recall the Bible ever referring to "tongues" or languages, which it is, as *gibberish* or *babble* either.

    I don't feel that their has been any misinterpretaiton by any of the *groups* as you call them. You simply are not educated as much as you think you are!

    Acts 2:4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

    Acts 2:39) For the *PROMISE* is unto *YOU,* and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

    If I'm not mistaken, He is still calling. [​IMG]

    BTW, when I received the Holy Ghost, I spoke in tongues. Syzito, if you have never received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues, you don't know what you have missed. This experiecne is awesome! God is so Good!

    MEE
     
    #12 MEE, Jan 14, 2002
  13. Chemnitz

    Chemnitz New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>BTW, when I received the Holy Ghost, I spoke in tongues. Syzito, if you have never received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues, you don't know what you have missed. This experiecne is awesome! God is so Good! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    But was it truely tongues? There is more evidence in the Bible to defend tongues being different languages than for the gibberish many call tongues.
     
    #13 Chemnitz, Jan 14, 2002
  14. MEE

    MEE <img src=/me3.jpg>

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Godmetal:


    But was it truely tongues? There is more evidence in the Bible to defend tongues being different languages than for the gibberish many call tongues.    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    That's what the Bible calls it! People that call speaking in tongues *gibberish* don't know what they are talking about. They have usually heard others using that slang.

    Luke 11: 11-13) If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or is he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

    12)Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

    13) If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the *HOLY SPIRIT* to them that ask him?

    So you see, when I asked the Lord to give me His Spirit, that is exactly what I got and when I received it, I spoke in a tongue or language. Other wise, how would I have known when I received it, according to the Bible, they (Acts 2:4) spoke in tongues when they received the Spirit. Why would it be any different for us today?

    Also the Bible says that it came from heaven. Acts 2:4) And suddenly there came a sound from *HEAVEN.*

    I'm not here to argue because I'm really a very happy person and just want to share with you all what God has promised for all of us. Acts 2:39) For the *PROMISE* (His Spirit) is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

    He is still calling!

    MEE
     
    #14 MEE, Jan 14, 2002
  15. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MEE:

    BTW, when I received the Holy Ghost, I spoke in tongues. Syzito, if you have never received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues, you don't know what you have missed. This experiecne is awesome! God is so Good!
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    So when the Hindu and the Mormon speak in tongues (as there is evidence that they have done so), have they also received the baptism of the Holy Ghost?
    DHK
     
    #15 DHK, Jan 14, 2002
  16. MEE

    MEE <img src=/me3.jpg>

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DHK:


    So when the Hindu and the Mormon speak in tongues (as there is evidence that they have done so), have they also received the baptism of the Holy Ghost?
    DHK    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    I really couldn't answer that because I don't know what god they were praying to, since neither are of the Christian faith.

    The one that I was praying to was the Lord God of heaven and Earth, which is Jesus Christ.

    MEE
     
    #16 MEE, Jan 14, 2002
  17. MEE

    MEE <img src=/me3.jpg>

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DHK:


    So when the Hindu and the Mormon speak in tongues (as there is evidence that they have done so), have they also received the baptism of the Holy Ghost?
    DHK    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I really couldn't answer that since I don't think that they are of the Christian faith.

    MEE
     
    #17 MEE, Jan 14, 2002
  18. Chemnitz

    Chemnitz New Member

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    by the pentacostal definition I'd say they have had a baptism of the Holy Spirit. Now this ought to put you guys in a pickle because we know they aren't Christian. Maybe it's about time you guys realize that you haven't spoken in tongues.
     
    #18 Chemnitz, Jan 14, 2002
  19. MEE

    MEE <img src=/me3.jpg>

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DHK:


    So when the Hindu and the Mormon speak in tongues (as there is evidence that they have done so), have they also received the baptism of the Holy Ghost?
    DHK    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I apologize if this same post comes through more than once. I've tried twice and it will not go through. So, I will try again! [​IMG]

    I really can't answer that question DHK, because I don't think that either the Hindu or Mormon religion are of the Christian faith.

    I know that you would have to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ before He would fill one with His Spirit.

    MEE
     
    #19 MEE, Jan 14, 2002
  20. MEE

    MEE <img src=/me3.jpg>

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Godmetal:
    by the pentacostal definition I'd say they have had a baptism of the Holy Spirit. Now this ought to put you guys in a pickle because we know they aren't Christian. Maybe it's about time you guys realize that you haven't spoken in tongues.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Godmetal, maybe it's time for you to study what the Bible says, about the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

    The definition of the baptism of the Holy Ghost is when a person is filled with the Spirit of God, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. How else would one know?

    If, and I say *IF* Hindus and Mormons speak in launguages by some god other than the God that I worship, which is Jesus Christ, they are in a heap of trouble. Wouldn't you think? [​IMG]

    MEE
     
    #20 MEE, Jan 14, 2002
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