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Old 05-15-2004, 01:57 PM
BillyMac BillyMac is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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It's all about the money. Just like worldly investors. No difference. The almighty dollar is the bottom line while we denounce the sins of those whom we are supporting.

Just doesn't seem right somehow to me!!!

DALLAS -- The Southern Baptist Convention Annuity Board is drawing criticism from some within the denomination because it owns about $14 million worth of stock in Carnival Cruise Lines, which is hosting a "Gay Days" cruise.


"The Baptists don't believe in gambling, liquor or pornography, or gays," said Don Allmon, a deacon at First Baptist Church of Dyer, Tenn. "When I say that, we love gays, but we don't like their lifestyle."

Allmon said most Baptists were unfamiliar with the investment but would be upset when they learned about it.


Karen Weldin, director of operations for Soulforce, a gay rights group that takes issue with the Baptist treatment of homosexuals, said she finds it amusing that the annuity board owns stock in Carnival while boycotting Disney.

"The whole thing just makes me smile a bit about the hypocrisy within the Southern Baptists," Weldin said.

The Baptist board owns about 26,200 shares of Carnival in its Equity Index Fund and 337,600 shares in its Value Index Fund as of Dec. 31, together valued at $14.5 million, according to the Associated Baptist Press, an independent Baptist news service. The board also has holdings in satellite and cable TV companies that provide on-demand or premium-priced pornographic programming.

According to the board's statement, its guidelines prohibit investments in any company publicly recognized "as being in the liquor, tobacco, gambling, pornography or abortion industries." Between 300 and 400 companies are on the board's restricted list, the statement said.


Different subject I suppose - the quoted statement by Don Allmon:
...said Don Allmon, a deacon at First Baptist Church of Dyer, Tenn. "When I say that, we love gays, but we don't like their lifestyle."
find in the Bible where it says to love the sinner, but hate the sin. It's not there that I can find.
Old 05-15-2004, 02:02 PM
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rsr rsr is offline
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This subject is being discussed at this thread:
Old 05-15-2004, 04:18 PM
BillyMac BillyMac is offline
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Yeah...... I went there and got directed back here. Talk about a run

Nonetheless, I remain stymied on this subject.

Anyone else feel conflicted??? How do you find balance without abandoning the SBC???
Old 05-15-2004, 05:55 PM
Grasshopper Grasshopper is offline
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If you own a Mutual Fund or have a 401k through your employer, you personally probably own some of the same things.
Old 05-15-2004, 07:47 PM
Ben W Ben W is offline
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I have been in a similar situation where I chose to leave the denomination when I realised that things were not going to change. I grew up in the Salvation Army who run a number of welfare stores and run a secular employment agency and other stuff like that. Sometimes a number of these groups act in a way that is blatent profits driven over what I feel should be their Christian endevour.

One example is the products sold in the stores, often books with horescopes in them or unacceptable videos that are not at all christian, I can go on and on about this, yet at the end of the day when I realised that it would not change, I decided to move on. My suggestion to SBC people is to challenge this head on and have the investment withdrawn and placed into something else. Ethical Investing is becoming more and more popular over extreme capatalism so why not look for another fund that offers a similar return that is an ethical investment.
Old 05-15-2004, 08:47 PM
RandR RandR is offline
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 348

Might this just be ABP trying to stir the pot?

But then, if this were the CBF, I'd expect the same treatment from BP. Funny thing, how those Christians treat each other...

As to the topic...I think its a bit disingenuous to divest of some of the stuff they've divested in years past and then come back on this topic with, "only 3% of their income is from gambling..."
Old 05-16-2004, 02:59 AM
Baptist Believer Baptist Believer is offline
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Originally posted by Grasshopper:
If you own a Mutual Fund or have a 401k through your employer, you personally probably own some of the same things.
Very true.

Owning stock in a cruise line does not equate to agreeing with everything that goes on on the cruises.

Furthermore, since the SBC Annuity Board is literally a part-owner of Carnival, they can actually have a voice in company business and possibly influence the corporate decisionmaking.
Old 05-16-2004, 06:36 AM
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pinoybaptist pinoybaptist is offline
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BB is right. But, then, again, if $14M dollars represents a huge amount in stocks, then the SBC Annuity Board can at least demand that Gay Day cruises be stopped, or else....
Old 05-16-2004, 09:42 AM
go2church go2church is offline
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14 million isn't that much relative to the over all stock market. I am not a big SBC supporter, but this just seems silly to me. Next you won't be able to own ultilities because a gay person might use electricity or want to take a bath...heaven forbid!
Old 05-16-2004, 10:14 AM
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LadyEagle LadyEagle is offline
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Would it help to write & protest?


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