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Old 11-29-2004, 02:05 AM
Phillip Phillip is offline
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Southeastern Oklahoma -- God's country
Posts: 6,708


Do you believe in a seperate baptism of the Holy Spirit as shown by speaking in unknown tongues?

Do you believe you can loose your salvation?

What is the purpose of speaking in "unknown" tongues?

How did the Bapticostals begin? My guess is that a group of Pentecostals joined a Baptist church at one time and changed its doctrines.

Why don't you just join the Pentecostals? Or start a new denomination. (If you say that you have, rather than changed a Baptist church then you are obviously not truly Baptist and should not be posting here.)
Old 11-29-2004, 03:39 AM
Ben W Ben W is offline
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I am openly Bapticostal, Yet answers are going to vary to your questions between people that may wear the Bapticostal label.

1. I believe that Baptism of the Holy Spirit is given at Salvation.

2. Yes people can lose their salvation if they willingly turn away from it.

3. Speaking in Tounges is a Spiritual Gift given by God to glorify Him.

4. Try the PFWB home page and have a look at their history

5. Why join the Pentecostals? It is quite ok to be a Pentecostal within a Baptist church.

There are several Baptist Pentecostal Churches, the Full Gospel Baptist and the Pentecostal Freewill Baptist Church being two examples.

There are also a number of Bapticostals in various Baptist Denominations. Suggesting that Spiritual Gifts have ceased and that Cessationism is required to be a Baptist is no way in line with the Baptist Distinctives which say nothing of the sort!
Old 11-29-2004, 08:25 AM
Matt Black Matt Black is offline
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1. At salvation, not subsequent a la Finney
2. Yes, if they knowingly and freely reject Christ
3. Edification of the Body, same as all the other spiritual gifts.
4. Wot Ben sed, plus in the UK a lot of Baptist churches were 'caught in the backwash' resulting from the waves of charismatic renewal and the charismatic movement generally from the 1970s onwards, so most Baptist churches here are, to a greater or lesser extent, charismatic in some way or another; don't forget that the charismatic movement, as well as spawning its own New Churches such as Vineyard, also hevily influenced existing denominations, and the Baptists here were no exception.

5. See above and Ben's post - no need. Also, as a nice, comfortable, middle-class Baptist, I think the Pentes can be a bit OTT!

Yours in Christ

Old 11-29-2004, 05:34 PM
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Thanks for that warm loving response to us fellow Christians Phillip!!!!!!
Ben is right! We are just as Bap[tist as any one here. Maybe that is not a good term to use but I believe everything the Baptist teach but on top of that I believe the Gifts of the Spirit are also for Baptist or anyone else that has faith to believe God for them.
In answer to your questions.
1. I believe that all Christians receive the Holy Ghost at salvation, but the filling of the Holy Ghost is something we can do after salvation and indeed are commanded to do so and that when we are filled we can speak in other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance.
2. I believe once saved always saved unless by our free will, we give it up. But we are saved only once..
3. We speak in tongues to edify ourselves and to speak to God the mysteries of the spirit. With interpretations we edify the whole body.
Bapticostals began when some Baptist reconized that indeed the Gifts are for the church today and asked God for the Gifts of the Spirit. And thru faith they got what they asked God for.
Old 11-29-2004, 05:59 PM
Plain ol' Ralph Plain ol' Ralph is offline
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ga
Posts: 686

Maybe the fruits of the Spirit rather ought to be sought after than the gifts? But then I am certain that statement will be ravished by the "spiritual"
Old 11-30-2004, 11:50 AM
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robycop3 robycop3 is offline
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Are fruits not gifts?
Old 11-30-2004, 11:58 AM
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Old 11-30-2004, 12:03 PM
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The Fruits of the Spirit are the results of the Holy Spirit working within us and in our lives. Gifts are given as God sees fit.

1 Corinthians 12:11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
Old 11-30-2004, 01:21 PM
dean198 dean198 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 323

Part 1 (since it won't let me post it all at once).

Do you believe in a seperate baptism of the Holy Spirit as shown by speaking in unknown tongues?
I believe in a literal baptism with the Spirit, and in speaking in languages, but I do not believe it is the initial evidence. My beliefs are authentic, old-style, Baptist, before all those new fangled ideas about the gifts being ceased came in. The General Baptist 1660 Confession says:

"That it is the duty of all such who are believers baptized to draw nigh unto God in submission to that principle of Christ’s doctrine, to wit, prayer and laying on of hands, that they may receive the promise of the Holy Spirit (Heb. 6:1, 2; Acts 8:12, 15, 17; 2 Tim. 1:6), whereby they may mortify the deeds of the body (Rom. 8:13), and live in all things answerable to their professed intentions and desires, even to the honour of Him who hath called them out of darkness into His marvellous light."

The General Baptist Orthodox Creed of 1678 likewise stated:

"Prayer, with imposition of hands by the bishop, or Elder, on baptized believers, as such, for the reception of the holy promised spirit of Christ, we believe is a principle of Christ’s doctrine, and ought to be practiced and submitted to by every baptized believer in order to receive the promised spirit of the father and son."

This doctrine is still taught today in some General Baptist churches, such as the Old Baptist Union, of which I was a member in England.

As for tongues, In his work, St Paul’s Catechism, answering the question, "But are not the gifts of the Spirit ceased," Thomas Grantham, the seventeenth century leader of the General Baptists, writes, "No such matter! unless our unworthiness deprive us of them. Are not these exhortations still in force? Covet earnestly the best Gifts. Follow after Charity, and desire spiritual Gifts, and rather than ye may prophesy. Covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with Tongues."
Old 11-30-2004, 01:25 PM
dean198 dean198 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 323

Part 2
Do you believe you can loose your salvation?
Yes, though the Calvinistic 'perseverance' isn't that far off, since it teaches the need to endure to the end. The New Hampshire Confession of Faith of 1833 states: “That such only are real believers as endure unto the end; that their persevering attachment to Christ is the grand mark which distinguishes them from mere professors.” In contrast, the "Eternal Security" or OSAS teaching does not require a believer to persevere to the end in order to be saved.

I agree with Thomas Helwys, who established one of the earliest Baptist churches in England:

"That men may fall away from the grace of God, and from the truth, which they have received and acknowledged, after they have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted of the good word of God, and of the powers of the world to come. And after they have escaped from the filthiness of the World, may be tangled again therein and overcome. That a righteous man may forsake his righteousness and perish. And therefore let no man presume to think that because he has, or had one grace, therefore he shall always have grace. But let all men have assurance, that if they continue unto the end, they shall be saved: Let no man then presume; but let all work out their salvation with fear and trembling."


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