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Featured “...America is a Christian nation.”

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Wesley Briggman, Feb 27, 2018.

  1. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Active Member

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    Has there ever been a period in American history when the nation, writ large, obeyed the First and Second Great Commandments? Not perfectly, but even mostly?

    I do not think it's necessarily revisionist to say that notwithstanding a significant number of appeals to Biblical authority, the United States has never been a Christian nation.
     
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  2. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Seems only our religious enemies believe we are a Christian Nation.

    You know - The Religion of Peace people.
     
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  3. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Active Member

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    The very definition of ironic.
     
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  4. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Active Member

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    You know, I don't think that attitude is peculiar to Muslims. Many of the atheists and "Secular Humanists" I come into contact with say the same thing.

    So basically: enemies of Jesus Christ don't know what His people actually look like.

    Not sure what that means, just an observation.
     
  5. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    It may be a case that anyone not embracing what is believed personally by another is viewed as a (insert convenient opposition). If Americans do not view their prophet as authoritative, and declare they embrace the Bible, the conclusion is...they must be Christian, because you cannot claim to embrace the Old and New Testament without likely being "Christian."

    However, Jefferson is a good example of one who is not a Christian, yet claims to embrace the Bible. He does not deny Christ was a literal historical figure, but, Jefferson's enemies would not necessarily be aware of his personal interpretation of the Bible based on his personal theology.

    I do not look at America as being a "Christian Nation," not then, and certainly not now. What America did have going for her was that many were people who had a fear of the God of the Bible, and among them there were Christians. And I think those Christians had as much of an impact on this Nation as the minority of those who reject the God of the Bible have had on America in the last century.

    I would agree, the enemies of Christ cannot properly identify Christians, particularly if they look at America today and view her as Christian. However, what is sadder in my view, are the many religious people in America who cannot recognize what a Christian looks like.


    God bless.
     
  6. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Active Member

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    Uhm...I think we're about to break the internet because I'm going to do something that is not really done on internet forums: I'm going to agree with you.

    I believe that the conditions you describe are very much a result of a lack of emphasis on personal holiness and an unwillingness to engage in authentic evangelism. Personal holiness is, I believe the first step because when we are actively engaged in a "Conquest of Canaan" (the ideal, not what actually happened) style campaign against sin in our own lives, this has two significant effects: first, it brings us closer to our God and His will. Second, it means that we are actually authentic witnesses of the Good News of Christ Jesus.

    Where we've run into problems is when we try to enforce our morality through legislation. That's not to say that we can't have an effect, or that we don't have a say. But first, before we attempt to do so, we should ensure that our position is in line with the Bible. We've failed on that count more than once. And second, we have to understand that our nationality is the second and less important element of our dual-citizenship in the Kingdom of Christ Jesus.

    We can lose "culture wars" but if we maintain our personal holiness, preach the Gospel and make disciples, we are working towards Christ's ultimate victory, and that is and should remain the goal.
     
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  7. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    GASP!

    You must repent brother...

    ;)


    God bless.
     
  8. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    For the most part I agree, however (and you knew that was coming, lol), one thing I would say is that we need to be careful not to think that what God is doing in our lives (and that is a continual process of sanctification which has varied results in all believers and is never a constant state of sinlessness) determines God's effectiveness in using us.

    After all, if He can get a point across using a donkey, I at least can feel better about His using me, lol. Some might say "He's still doing that..."


    1 Corinthians 1:27-29
    King James Version (KJV)

    27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

    28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

    29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.




    Trying to enforce morality at any level is, in my view, a mistake. And I am not talking about the parent child relationship, but in regards to witnessing.

    Because no matter how "good" we might feel we are, or how holy we think we are living, there's always going to be something that is going to destroy that image.

    I would view morality sought after through legislation is better than the Church herself trying to impose a standard we already know the unbelieving population has no interest in. I think we do well to combat issues like Abortion, Homosexuality, and now Gender Confusion. Most people don't have a problem about enforcing legislation that deals with drugs and alcohol (this latter becoming less and less these days), and the end result id the saving of physical lives. That should be a concern for us as well, though our greater concern is for spiritual life.


    Agreed. I take the view that when the Church is raptured, a primary source of restraint of evil will be taken from the world. The Church is not the Restrainer, the Holy Spirit is, so the Spirit being taken out of the way (not out of the world) could be seen in the Church being taken out of the world.


    Again...agreed. Wholeheartedly.

    But that does not mean new believers cannot also be effective witnesses based on what they do know. We are all saved into a pretty ignorant state, but, what we do know most of us (I believe) have a burning desire to share with everyone we meet.


    Speak for yourself.

    ;)

    No, seriously, we all embrace views that change as we gain better understanding and familiarity with Scripture, and as the Spirit enlightens and illuminates the Word.


    Agreed. I call those who don't understand this Political Religionists.

    I think it was Gregg Frazer who wrote a book on several key founding fathers, and determined them to be Rational Theists, rather than Christians. My niece once brought home a book report on Abigail Adams, and quotes from here made it pretty clear she denied the Deity of Christ.

    Its sad to see people so zealous over politics and not their own salvation, or the salvation of others.


    Again, in part I agree, I just see a potential for religious mentality. A lot of people think their Christianity is built upon a faithful church attendance and tithing, and in their minds this is what Christians do. And I am not saying they don't, just saying that we should never think what we do determines destiny for either us or those we are called to preach the Gospel to.


    God bless.
     
  9. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Active Member

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    Donkeys, rocks, bushes and the very wind speak to His glory.

    But, and I guess I owe a nod to John Piper's concept of "Christian Hedonism", but it works better for me, if not always in the short term--but usually so--then certainly in the long term, if I am obedient.

    And I agree, we preach the Gospel, not preach it when we're good 'n' ready. We're imperfect instruments at best. But working on one's own sanctification makes our witness stronger than it would be if we were say, hypocrites.

    Our faith is also about belonging to and, IMO, serving one's local church, obedience to the Commandments of God, tithing,e tc....Fundamentally it is an ongoing relationship with my Creator, which is the necessary causal agent to the aforementioned concepts.

    Internet broken. Two agreements on a complex issue.
     
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  10. JTE

    JTE New Member

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    It seems to me the best we can say is that the country was founded on Judeo-Christian principals, but we can hardly say the country was ever Christian...and certainly the government never was. The list would be long if we compiled the unChristian decisions the government has made, from the way it treated Native Americans and the number of treaties the government ignored to slavery to abortion to favoring of the wealthy. That is why Christians should be seen as and should be counter-cultural.
     
  11. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Active Member

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    I couldn't agree more.

    We are sojourners and exiles travelling in a foreign land whose customs should be alien to us. We should seek to honor, respect, love and obey the God that the culture ignores, we should love our neighbors as ourselves, we value human life as created in the image of the God we serve, we should see marriage as an everlasting covenant that displays in real, tangible ways the Covenant by which we are sealed into everlasting life, and we shouldn't value the temporal, passing things of this life more than the eternal, permanent and perfect "riches" of the life to come.

    When we do things, people think we're nuts.

    As they should.
     
  12. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    That sounds a lot like what Russell Moore of the SBC's ERLC said, that nominal, Bible-Belt Christianity will soon give way to a different sort:

    Baptist Press - Russell Moore: Church Returning to Oddness
     
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  13. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Active Member

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    It's bananas! We worship the God who died. On purpose.

    To be clear: He ain't dead right now!
     
  14. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    And the way the founders treated us was Constitutional. Just as prayer in schools and Bible reading was and is Constitutional.
     
  15. ChrisTheSaved

    ChrisTheSaved Active Member

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    Well what about the Irish? The Blacks? The Scotts? People have been killing each other for years, different times and it never works to apply you own cultural historical position onto history. Many Christians risked their lives to minister to the natives.
     
  16. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Agreed. He is trying to divert the original point made by demeaning the morality of the founders. The point was not their morality. The point was if you want to know what The Constitution means, loom at how the men who ratified it interpreted it.
     
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  17. ChrisTheSaved

    ChrisTheSaved Active Member

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    Russell Moore is a clown, I often muse he has some sort of evidence on someone because he needs to be ousted.
     
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