1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

1 Samuel 24:7

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Rippon, Jul 6, 2008.

Top Posters
  1. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    TNIV : With these words David sharply rebuked his men and did not allow them to attack Saul. And Saul left the cave and went his way.

    NRSV : ... scolded his men severely...

    ESV,NAS and HCSB : ... persuaded his men...

    WEB and Darby : ... checked his men...

    NLTse and NET : ... So David restrained his men...

    1587 Geneva : So Dauid overcame his seruants with these words...

    KJV : So David stayed his servants...

    Which translation, or translations is the most accurate here? I'm guessing the NRSV and TNIV.There were no NET Notes for this one.Some of you textual wizards can enlighten us.
     
    #1 Rippon, Jul 6, 2008
  2. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    WOW! What a thought-provoking post Rip!

    It looks like the REB is closer to the thrust of the NRSV and TNIV.

    "So David reproved his men and would not allow them to attack Saul."
     
    #2 Rippon, Jul 7, 2008
  3. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,497
    Likes Received:
    1,241
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Hebrew root of this word is used only 6 other places.
    Leviticus 1:17; 11:3,7,26; Deuteronomy 14:6 and Judges 14:6
    It’s use in 1 Samuel is a bit of an oddity.

    Samuel Driver (the ‘D’ of the BDB Hebrew and English Lexicon) translates it as: ‘And David tare his men with words’, citing its use in Judges 14:6

    The Spirit of the LORD came upon him mightily, so that he tore him as one tears a young goat though he had nothing in his hand; but he did not tell his father or mother what he had done.
    NASB95

    He writes:
    “…if MT [Masoretic Text] be correct, David—to judge from such knowledge of the Heb. word used as we possess—must have expressed himself with singular violence, and in terms which would be suitable rather to an abusive and malicious attack by words …than to a simple rebuke or ‘check’ “

    Driver, S. R. (1890). Notes on the Hebrew Text and Topography of the Books of Samuel (page 150). [LINK]

    Rob
     
    #3 Deacon, Jul 7, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2008
  4. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thanks Rob. Still, of all the versions I cited -- the NRSV and TNIV have the most intense language regarding the affair.The other renderings sound too tame in comparison.
     
    #4 Rippon, Jul 8, 2008
  5. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,497
    Likes Received:
    1,241
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Personally I think the TNIV nails it best

    When I read the NRSV's translation I picture David angrily wagging a finger in the faces of his men. :laugh:

    The footnote of the NASB95 reads,

    David tore apart his men with these words

    Rob
     
    #5 Deacon, Jul 8, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 8, 2008
  6. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
     
    #6 Rippon, Jul 8, 2008
  7. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,497
    Likes Received:
    1,241
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Rippon: "He excoriated them."
    Aren't you the one who complains about archaic words! :laugh:

    This verse provides a good example of the shortcomings of literal translations.
    I usually like the more literal versions but they seen to miss the boat here.

    Besides that fact that the Hebrew word is understood only with some difficulty,
    we just don't have a common word that conveys what it means.

    The phrase is an expression or idiom that is best translated in our language in other words.

    Bravo Rippon!

    Rob
     
    #7 Deacon, Jul 9, 2008
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Loading...