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1 Timothy 2:12 should a woman teach a man

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by soninme, Aug 4, 2008.

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  1. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Amy, I think you and I might have some disagreement on this. :smilewinkgrin:

    I am wondering where in the bible it is clear that women taught the scriptures to men?

    Usually, people cite Aquila and Priscilla, but Priscilla was teaching with her husband, which is not the same as teaching on her own.

    I do not believe women should do exegetical teaching of the Bible to men, nor should they be pastors.

    Women can be missionaries, teach women and youth, and speak in church but not in a way that is teaching scripture or excercising authority. I speak in churches on the occult and New Age but am sharing information; I do not teach scripture to men and would refuse to give a "message" or anything like it to men.
     
  2. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    No, not at all. You could be testifying. Furthermore, the Bible doesn't say she did it to a crowd.

    Yes, I know. I am a silly one for thinking that words mean things. But yes I think her speaking was simply that ... speaking. Why? Because that's what God said it was.

    Speaking (just read it ... that's what it says it is). Women speak to me and other men all the time in church. That is not teaching, and any one standing there would readily recognize that.

    This is confusing. If you look at the context, Paul had previously quoted Christ, and when he says "I speak, not the Lord," he is referring to the fact that he is no longer quoting Christ.

    I was under the impression that you had been a believer for a while. But the kind of stuff you are saying here makes me wonder. Perhaps I have assumed to much about you. This is pretty basic stuff.

    Um, no. When he says that, he is speaking from apostolic authority under the inspiration of the Spirit. I gave you a number of examples and could give you many more.

    Again, this is basic bibliology that should be covered in any basic discipleship class. It reminds me of just how poor a job churches do of discipling people. It grieves me as well, particularly when we end up with people denying the commands of God over it.
     
  3. standingfirminChrist

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    Yes, it is a shame Paul claimed to be the one who suffered not a woman to speak when it was God all along, right?

    Funny, I can't find one verse in which God says, "Now Paul, you know that command was from me and not from you. You had no business putting the word 'I' in there."
     
    #23 standingfirminChrist, Aug 4, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2008
  4. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    Priscilla taught Apollos:

    But does Paul's writing to Timothy negate the passage about Priscilla teaching Apollos? No, of course not. It is always dangerous to build a doctrine on one passage no matter how appealing it is to my own wishes.

    Paul must have been writing about a specific issue or problem. We know from scripture that Timothy was taught by his mother. His father was gentile.

    http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cach...+paul+women+teachers&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9&gl=us
     
  5. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    I don't know about you, but we do not attend a jewish temple.
     
  6. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    I'm just not sure what the problem is with just simply believeing what God out in His bible for us, especially when it is plain and clear.
     
  7. standingfirminChrist

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    Reckon we can say then that the passage for women not to speak was written to Timothy and his congregation then.

    Paul did not say it was to all Churches, nor did he say it was a command of the Lord. When he said, "I" he was speaking of his own preferences. He did not say 'God does not suffer.'

    Larry can say it is poor exegesis, but that is just his opinion. Paul said 'I' referring to himself. Had he not meant 'I' he would not have said it.
     
  8. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Say it ain't so Marcia! :laugh:
    You and I agree on so much.


    Well that is a good one. Priscilla was teaching with her husband, but still teaching. She was teaching under her husband's authority. A woman today teaches under the pastor's authority.


    I agree that women should not be pastors, but women have the same Holy Spirit as men and they're exegesis is just as good.


    Do you not give the gospel message to men? You have to quote/teach scripture to do that, right?

    I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.
     
  9. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    What's your point?
     
  10. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    WITH her husband and not in the assembly. If you read the passage, you'll see that they "took him" (ESV), "took him unto them" (KJV), "took him aside" (NASB), to teach him. This would be like taking someone out for coffee to speak to them. Very different than the public assembly AND Priscilla did not teach Apollos on her own but along side her husband. What they did was to disciple.

    It is not building a doctrine on one passage to say that women are to not teach or have authority over men. Scripture is clear on that - and no were do we see a woman in authority over men in the New Testament church.
     
  11. standingfirminChrist

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    A woman teaching does not necessitate her being in authority. Paul says he does not allow a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority. Teaching can be done without usurping authority.

    Fact is, Anna was teaching in the temple when she spoke to all who sought redemption in Jerusalem.
     
  12. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    I fear you are mistaken. There is strong evidence that Priscilla did indeed teach Apollos. She, against all the norms of that day, is listed first in this scripture and this gives very strong evidence that she was regarded more highly as a leader and teacher than her husband.



    But you are building a doctrine on just one passage while there are others you must ignore if you are to hold to that belief.

    A few questions:

    What issue or problem was Paul specifically writing about in Timothy? You remember that in Cor. he says a woman should always have her hair covered. If you take Paul and build a doctrine on teaching from one passage in Tim. than to be honest you must demand that women always have their hair covered.

    However this is not the case. Paul was writing about a particular problem in one location and so his stance on covering the head by a woman does not apply to all places.

    Remember that these are letters from Paul to specific places. They were not general letters sent out to everyone. Each letter of Paul must be placed within the context of who, where, when and why he was writing them.
     
  13. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Really ? So nothing in Galatians could be applied to every church ? Did Paul give different messages to each church ? Did God set up each church to preach a different message ?
     
  14. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    I did not say that. I said that each letter must be seen in the light of the specifics that Paul was writing about to that particular church. There were specific reasons why Paul wrote particular ideas to one church and not another ... just as you would do if you were writing letters to churches. You have to look at all of Paul's writings and see how ideas that on the surface negate other ideas he has written to other churches can be reconciled and brought together. As I said in one letter to one specific church Paul writes about always keeping a woman's head covered. Why? Because there was a specific problem in that city that people in other cities did not face. Thus that command, if you want to call it that, is for one congregation but not all congregations ... but Paul does not say that. Why? Because, again, he is writing to one congregation.

    Same with Timothy. Why did he write about women not being allowed to teach to Timothy, but not to all other churches. Certainly Paul never expected his letter to Timothy to be read by thousands around the world.

    So, again, all of Paul's writing must be taken as a whole and brought together in a rational manner. Else to quote one passage you like while ignoring others leads to gross errors.
     
  15. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    I'm not taking a side at this point since it's effects are so close to home. It's not that I don't have a side just choose not to take one as yet for this discussion. However, I do wonder at something. Should women who attend church not cut their hair or wear makeup and Jewelry? It seems Paul teaches this too.
     
  16. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    He said it to Corinth, 1Cor 14:34 tells women to sit in silence.

    Gross errors, like women preachers. That's what you get when you don't take the bible as a while.
     
  17. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    If it were only a specific issue that Paul was addressing, then he would not have gone back to the creation order to explain why. I do not see that it's just a conditional statement.
     
  18. standingfirminChrist

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    Paul was addressing unruly women who interrupted the service by asking questions of their husbands in the congregation.

    This is not addressing women in a teaching position. The women were asking questions, not trying to teach.

    1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
    1 Corinthians 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

    Clearly, they were trying to ask their husbands questions and disrupting the teaching of the Word of God.
     
    #38 standingfirminChrist, Aug 4, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2008
  19. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    It's just "in the assembly" that they are to dress modestly(v. 9), just like it's just "in the assembly" that they may not teach men(v. 12).
    When one is the back room of another building or a coffee shop, it's another matter altogether.
     
  20. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Can you show me where Paul says not to cut the hair (not that women's long hair is given for her glory but that we're not to CUT the hair)?

    Can you show me where Paul says that we're not to wear makeup?

    Can you show me where Paul says that women are not to wear jewelry?
     
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