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1 Timothy 3:16 question

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by David J, Sep 1, 2004.

  1. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    Michelle,

    I know you believe what you say, but you are being naive. In order to justify your KJVO stand you seem to think you have to defend the Anglicans and pedo-baptism. If you are a Baptist, there is no way you can justify this practice. The Anglican church believes that if one is a member of their church they have salvation, the same as the RCC teaches. They believe that salvation comes through the church, not as Baptist who believe that salvation comes through a personal releationship with God through Jesus. Therefore, in baptizing infants and bringing them into the church they are considered saved. You really need to spend some time studying the religion before you defend it because it was these pedo-baptist who translated your favorite version of the Bible.

    Bro Tony
     
  2. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Michelle,

    I know you believe what you say, but you are being naive. In order to justify your KJVO stand you seem to think you have to defend the Anglicans and pedo-baptism. If you are a Baptist, there is no way you can justify this practice. The Anglican church believes that if one is a member of their church they have salvation, the same as the RCC teaches. They believe that salvation comes through the church, not as Baptist who believe that salvation comes through a personal releationship with God through Jesus. Therefore, in baptizing infants and bringing them into the church they are considered saved. You really need to spend some time studying the religion before you defend it because it was these pedo-baptist who translated your favorite version of the Bible.

    Bro Tony
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    And what they believe, say and do today, is opposite and contrary and also heretical to the Anglican articles of faith, that were once believed by them. This is my point. I just gave you the evidence with the articles as witness to themselves. It is irrelevant to what the Anglican church believes and practices today. Their articles of faith say differently.

    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  3. Michael52

    Michael52 Member

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    You really befieve this is OK? Seems extremely non-Baptist-like to me. :confused:
     
  4. David J

    David J New Member

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    Yikes! Another thread hijacked by the KJVO's!

    Please close this thread since the subject of 1 Tim 3:16 is not being discussed.

    Thank you

    David J. Horn
     
  5. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    You refuse to understand what the original ariticles mean, because you have no historical perspective on what the Anglican Church has always practiced. They did not leave the RCC because of doctrinal differences, but because the King did not want to submit to Rome. Their practice from the beginning has been that the church provides salvation and baptism is the mode where that is obtained. You can keep denying this, but it will not change the fact that the Anglicans have always been pedo-baptist offering entry into the church and heaven through baptism.
    You have no leg to stand on in your defense of them as you are clearly ignorant of church history.

    You clearly just have to find someway to believe that those who translated your favorite version were infallible, or in some way at the same place as the Apostles who were inspired by God Himself.

    I can't believe that a genuine Bible believing Christian could defend the heretical practice of pedo-baptism.

    Bro Tony
     
  6. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    Then Tony, you are believing rumors of men, and not the words and testimony of the articles of their faith as they once believed. Go and read their articles of faith, to really know what they once believed. They opposed Roman Catholicism. They were protestants, and part of the reformation, same as Baptists.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  7. Michael52

    Michael52 Member

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    If I read the KJV every day (which I do) and also read MV's every day (which I do), will this cancel out "a lot of blessing that God has for [me] in His word"?
     
  8. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    Michelle,

    You are incredible. You refuse to study anything. You have no sense of history. You condemn everyone that does not see things your way. Your willing to associate your self with a group that is clearly much closer to the RCC than Baptist. You have decided to remain ignorant, that is your choice. Your desire to prove your warped view of KJVO has clouded any possibility for you to deal with the reality of issues that may affect it.

    I guess I would understand, if I understood. What I have come to understand is that there is no way to have an intelligent conversation with someone who chooses to be willfully ignorant.

    Good day,

    Bro Tony

    PS...for those interested I have opened a thread in the doctrine forum concerning this matter of pedo-baptism and dedication of infants.
     
  9. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    XIX. Of the Church.
    The visible Church of Christ is a congregation of faithful men, in which the pure Word of God is preached, and the Sacraments be duly ministered according to Christ's ordinance, in all those things that of necessity are requisite to the same.

    As the Church of Jerusalem, Alexandria, and Antioch, have erred, so also the Church of Rome hath erred, not only in their living and manner of Ceremonies, but also in matters of Faith.

    --------------------------------------------------


    Here is another article many seem to ignore.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  10. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    Michelle,

    One last thought since you are so impressed with the Anglicans and their Articles of Faith, why don't you convert?

    Bro Tony
     
  11. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    I don't need to because I belong to a church that still holds to these truths. Sadly, the Anglican churches of today are apostate from what they once believed.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  12. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    I think this thread has served its purpose, and being on the fifth page will be closed at roughly midnight CDT tonight unless ther are compelling reasons to keep it open.
     
  13. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    C4K, I don't think there are ANY compelling reasons to keep it open. One person whom shall remain nameless has continued in threads over the past several weeks to present views but not back them up with consistant, studied out evidence. Instead this person has continued to use circular, cult-like tactics. Yet, this person is still being allowed to do so, IMHO.

    AVL1984
     
  14. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    Natters, you may not be 'Anti-KJV' but there most definitely is an Anti-KJV crowd. Homosexuals hate the KJV. Catholics hate the KJV. Mormons hate the KJV. Why? Because it is impossible to defend homosexuality, Catholicism and Mormonism from the KJV.

    God has called us as Christians to live Holy. He asks for nothing less than perfection.

    Matthew 5:48
    Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    James 1
    3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
    4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

    Romans 12:2
    And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

    How can we prove what is the perfect will of God, if we don't have a perfect Word of God?

    21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
    22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

    Without the perfect will of God, how can we make our faith perfect?

    What if when Abraham had been told by God to sacrifice Isaac, he decided that God really meant take him up on a mountain and sing hymns with him, or that Isaac was a mistranslation of calf, or that maybe God really hadn't said that at all, but it had been added at a later time? Abraham already had the promise for believing God. But he got another blessing for obeying God.
    Gen 22
    16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
    17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
    18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

    You have to know God's will to obey it.

    Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen. I have evidence in God's word that He may have preserved His perfect words. I am holding on to that in faith. I do not have to have proof, just evidence. God is going to be the final judge of us all. I want to know His will so I can do it.

    If I stand before Him and he says that I was wrong in believing that He preserved His word, I guess I will be without excuse, because you warned me. But if I am right, then it will be you who is without excuse. I just want us to both be right, but we can't both be right unless we agree.

    [ September 03, 2004, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: James Newman ]
     
  15. natters

    natters New Member

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    James Newman said "Natters, you may not be 'Anti-KJV' but there most definitely is an Anti-KJV crowd. Homosexuals hate the KJV. Catholics hate the KJV. Mormons hate the KJV."

    First, you said "The Anti-KJV crowd likes to say that we believe salvation is only possible through a KJV and that if you read a MV your damned in all eternity" - I don't think you had Homosexuals and Catholics and Mormons in mind when you made that statement.

    Second, I personally know homosexuals that like the KJV. I personally know Catholics that like the KJV. I personally know Mormons that LOVE the KJV.

    James Newman said "How can we prove what is the perfect will of God, if we don't have a perfect Word of God?"

    How could they in 1610? Same way.
     
  16. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    I don't know natters, I edited my post a little while you were posting this. See above.

    If they had the perfect word before the KJV and they had evidence of it and they ignored it, they are without excuse. I cannot in good conscience make myself the final authority of what God really said. I cannot allow others to decide that for me either. I must allow God to have His own final word on the subject.

    Can you say that you have evidence in the scriptures that God would NOT preserve His word?

    And I don't mean to make blanket statements about anyone or any group of people. I repent if I have judged anyones heart in this matter, but just because someone says they love something, doesn't make it so. Jesus says if we love Him, keep his commandments.
     
  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    It doesn't surprise me that michelle wants to use orwellian double-think to justify the use of the word "sacrament" for the ordinance of baptism.

    The Church of England practises the "sacrament" of baptism upon babies which "sacrament" they tell us "grafts them into the church".

    A few weeks ago she also rationalized and absolved King James and his "bishops" for shedding the blood of and torturing believers for obeying God rather than men.

    I'll say it again michelle, since you seem so fond of the Church of England and now defend their "sacraments" why aren't you a member of this marvelous Church which gave us an "inspired" Bible and "sacraments" as well.

    HankD
     
  18. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Yes it does. It's called innuendo because you are talking directly to the people who love Modern Bibles which you in your superior love have made the object of your hate (Modern Bibles).

    HankD
     
  19. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to wait till midnight - this has reverted to a series of attacks.
     
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