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Featured 10 Ways To Determine If Your Christianity Has Been “Americanized”

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Crabtownboy, Jul 23, 2015.

  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Crabby still has not answered this.
     
  2. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    see bolded text for my response.
     
  3. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    When you raise the minimum wage, the companies must raise product prices, causing inflation in the community.
    You mention that they wold buy more and that it would help companies make a profit.. but you ignore the fact that the companies have to pay their workers more, thus taking away from the profit of the owner, it's not really a net gain..

    Allow me to give you an simplified fictitious example:

    Me and my wife own a farm that produces milk, and we employ one person and pay him a wage of 100 dollars a week, and on average our cows produce 100 pounds of milk a week, our bills and cost of living are 100 dollars a week, so we charge our customers 2 dollars a pound to pay our employee and to take care of our costs, so we bring in about 200 dollars a week.

    But then the government mandates that we pay our employee now 200 dollars a week, so in order to compensate so that we can cover our new cost of living per week, we raise our prices to 3 dollars a pound.

    Now imagine that there is another family with the same exact situation as us,except let's imagine that instead of milk, they produce pounds of corn, let's imagine their numbers are the same as the ones above, and let's assume that we buy corn from them, and they buy milk from us.

    Because we had to raise our prices for milk, they have to raise their prices on corn, so that they can continue to buy milk for their family.

    Now... when my family worker goes to a local store to buy corn and milk that we provide, he has to pay more... and likewise there has been a ripple in he prices... Even though he is being paid more, the money he's paid has been devalued.

    I know this is a rough illustration, but it gives you the general idea.
     
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think you are right that the immediate result of raising the minimum wage would be an increase in both spending and morale. But just as companies are dependent on profit and not cash flow to remain viable, I don’t know if these increases would be sustainable. What I worry about is the increase in above minimum wage salaries as well. Granted, these do not necessarily need to be in proportion to an increase in minimum wage – but anything less would be a decrease in overall compensation (education, skilled labor, etc, would be devalued to a degree). In the long run, I believe things would settle out except the dollar would be devalued. But who knows. You are right that this is a complex issues with many components. I just do not have as much faith that merely raising the minimum wage would do more good as harm (and let's face it, that's what we're running on...the possible effects of people's attitudes, increased morale affecting the economy, etc). Thank you, BTW, for the article.
     
  5. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
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    [personal attack edited--Please keep posts related to the OP]
     
    #45 JohnDeereFan, Jul 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2015
  6. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    [personal attack edited: Please confine your remarks to the OP]

    You, Mr. Crab not only support the "party of death" in this country, the democrat party, but you continually spout its virtues.

    That "party of death", the democrat party, celebrates the continuation of the American Holocaust that has murdered more than 56,000,000 unborn children in this country.

    Now we learn that the group that slaughters more babies than anyone else in the country, Planned Parenthood, is harvesting for sale body parts from these babies, babies in which extra care is taken in slaughtering the baby so as not to harm certain body parts.

    The anointed candidate of that "party of death" refuses to condemn the sale of body parts, which is illegal, from these carefully slaughtered children but instead parrots that disgusting mantra "women's right to choose"!

    Perhaps Mr. Crab you are correct to talk about the American version of Christianity since many so-called Christians and denominations support and practice the slaughter of the unborn child.

    Consider how clearly this revelation of the sale of body parts defines this country, not as a Christian nation, but more as a pagan nation. The abomination called "women's right to choose" to slaughter their unborn child is legal, but the subsequent sale of the body parts is illegal.[/b]
     
    #46 OldRegular, Jul 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2015
  7. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    Believe I answered that. I guess you do not want any responsibility for helping those in need, the sick, the elderly, etc.

    Nothing should be more important to you than following Jesus' teachings on how we are to treat others. That will show you have truly accepted and follow him. Do that and get all churches to do that and there will be no need for governmental programs.

    Agree?
     
  8. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for your reasoned reply. I appreciate it.
     
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    That does not answer my question. Which focus should take priority, the gospel or coerced wealth redistribution? Which one.
     
  10. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

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    "When you raise the minimum wage, the companies must raise product prices..."
    Why?
     
  11. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    First, The distribution of wealth was simply a phenomenon of the early Church under persecution in Jerusalem. There was no Biblical commandment for this practice and no other reference to the practice elsewhere in the NT.

    Second, We cannot look at the practices of the early Church and assume all these practices were Biblical. For example there was a period when many Christians taught martyrdom, certainly not sanctioned by Scripture. In fact it smacks more of Radical Islam!

    Third, Can we all assume that you will no longer support the "party of death", the democrats. Certainly abortion is contrary to Scripture!

    Fourth, Jesus Christ instructed His disciples to: Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.

    Fifth, In a dictatorship, monarchy, just how does the individual get involved with government?



    You incorrectly state that "The chief calling of a Christ-follower is to love others." The chief calling of the Christian is to: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. If we go to the book of Revelation we see that Jesus Christ rebuked the Church at Ephesus because they had left their first love.

    Furthermore the commands of Jesus Christ to love one another was given to his disciples:

    John 13:34. A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
    John 13:35. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
    John 15:12. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
    John 15:17. These things I command you, that ye love one another.


    There are numerous commands in the Epistles that we are to love one another. Most of these are clearly commands given to believers. The parable of the good Samaritan can be used to support loving your neighbor. But Islam is not my neighbor.

    It is clear, at least to me, from the example of Jesus Christ cleansing the Temple of those who defiled it, that our love is not necessarily to extend to Islam!

    Strange that you preach love to Islam but cannot preach love to the unborn.

    Ability to memorize is not a test of discipleship.



    According to the above the Government should not attempt to solve the nations problems. It follows that the government should leave helping the poor to the true believers. Good to see you reject Socialism Mr. Crab!

    It is not my task to judge the heart of anyone. God will judge those who practice and support the slaughter of the unborn child. However, as Paul teaches in 1st Corinthians 5 the Christian is to judge the moral behavior of those within the congregation. Other Scripture deal with doctrinal infidelity!



    First, The tithe is not required of the Christian.

    Second, The affluent Churches generally tear down their barns and build bigger ones, not help the poor.

    Third, You incorrectly carry the example of the sharing of wealth in Church in Jerusalem to all Churches!

    Fourth, It is a fact that Republicans and Conservatives give far more money to charity than do liberals.

    Fifth, Where in Scripture does it say that a Christian value is to eliminate poverty. Jesus Christ tells us: For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/formerlyfundie/americanized-christianity/[/QUOTE]

    Continued!
     
  12. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    It is false to say that we are a nation of immigrants.

    I could make the same argument about most nations but it would be false. For example one could argue that Israel of the Old Testament was a nation of immigrants since the children of Israel TOOK the land of promise after spending 400 years in Egypt. Certainly most of Israel when it was formed as a nation were immigrants. But we don't call it a nation of immigrants.

    Another example that comes to mind is England. The Anglo-Saxons displaced the Celts, the Normans defeated the Anglo-Saxons. According to some anthropologists the Native Indians in North and South America crossed a land bridge from Siberia to Alaska and migrated southward. Yankees are still migrating southward!



    The above is basically BS and it is only the liberal/left who get wrapped up in the war on women i.e., sexism!



    BS



    The above is a gross exaggeration since many so-called Churches have endorsed homosexual marriage. If endorsement of homosexual marriage is not an issue for true disciples of Jesus Christ then what is. Jesus Christ taught:

    3. The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
    4. And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
    5. And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
    6. Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.


    And what does homosexual marriage have to do with "the fact that 750 million people around the world don’t even have access to clean water or that 805 million people are chronically malnourished."

    I believe many Christians understand that were it not for the military we would not have the freedom to openly worship God. In fact that right is slowly being restricted by the leftist democrats and their comrades in the courts and media.

    I have said on this BB that I do not believe the American Flag should be in the worship center. Furthermore, there is no such thing as a Christian Flag!

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/formerlyfundie/americanized-christianity/[/QUOTE]
     
    #52 OldRegular, Jul 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2015
  13. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    The OP is a personal attack!
     
  14. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    So they can stay in business and continue to employ people.

    And where in the Constitution does the Federal Government get the authority to set wages?
     
  15. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

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    It is so they maintain the same profit. Greed overrides concern for others. If a business owner is only in the interest of himself, he forgets the responsibility God also gave him. "Love one another" has been replaced with "my rights" and "good business sense".
     
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Companies are not charities; they are in business to achieve a certain profit margin. A small company may not have to pass the increase on to the consumer. Many will simply downsize the number of employees. Most small businesses run at a fairly low margin of profit and depend on keeping overhead down. Part of overhead is sustainability (companies need to stay in business even when business is slow). A company will pay much more than $5 an hour to give an employee a $5/hr raise. Not only will a company have to pass on this increase to the consumer (or decrease employment while trying to maintain productivity), but a company will also have to pass on whatever increases they have to pay for materials to do business, transportation cost increases, etc. This will snowball. We know this will snowball because we see it happen when small increases are involved merely in product (take chicken, for a recent example - but realize an increase in wages across the board is less temporary).
     
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You are assuming that the average business is raking in the money. Your assumption is wrong when applied to small businesses.
     
  18. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    You make the false assumption that all businessmen are followers of Jesus Christ!

    But if a businessman is a Christian he still must make a profit to stay in business and employ people.
     
  19. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    JonC, there is one other thing that needs to be shown. The productivity of the American workers has increased greatly. One problem is that wages have not increased at anywhere near the rate of that productivity. From the 1940's until about 1970 the two tracked very nicely and this is as it should be IMHO. The American worker is producing much more but, in reality, receiving less for being the best workers in the world. The chart below illustrates the growing gap between productivity and wages.

    [​IMG]

    Here is a second chart showing how the gap accelerated in 2000. I wish the chart continued until 2013 or 2014.

    [​IMG]
     
    #59 Crabtownboy, Jul 24, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2015
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    That is a good point, CTB. I wonder how that chart would look if it included a population and inflation graph for the same time period. The issue is, as you pointed out, complex. Technology (to include the cost of technology) also complicates things.

    My own economic philosophy also comes into play (capitalism vs. socialism). I believe that historically, neither are completely sustainable in their purest forms in and of themselves.
     
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