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2 Corinthians 5:14-15 and the Atonement

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by icthus, May 6, 2005.

  1. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest New Member

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    At what point in the atonement for sin in Leviticus was the atonement complete? Was it not finished perhaps even before the animal was killed? I mean after All, for the people to bring their "spotless" animals to be killed is indeed obedience to God. Isn't that sufficient for atonement? What more needs to be done for the atonement for sin, except to confess them, and what better way to confess them than to bring an offering to be slaughtered in the person's stead. That is of course what we do today. Are our sins not atoned for long before any of us were born? Do we have to keep atoning?

    And you call it the beginning of a process. Jesus said it is finished and you say it has just begun. It's been 2000 years since that event, it is finished yet?

    What about the Lev 16 concept of "atonement" that INCLUDES the High Priestly ministry of Christ (that we see in Heb 8-10 taking place AFTER the cross)??</font>[/QUOTE]That is the process for dealing with dead animal blood, and that simply does not exist in the Christ's atonement for sin. And it is foolish to make that linkage between the Christ's ONCE FOR ALL atonement and the ancient priesthood's ANNUAL atonement for sin.
    Never heard of a Levitical atonement where the animal offered up its own blood, Have you? So why are you making that comparison? How long does this "priestly chore" continue, especially since the vail of the Holy of Holies was rent from top to bottom, thus ending the annual offering of blood. Hasn't been done for 2000 years. Maybe that is what Jesus meant on the cross when he said "it is finished" maybe he was telling us the priesthood is finished.
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    It certainly is a good idea. But lets look at the text.

    Notice that the blood of the sin offering has to be brought in to (the sanctuary) to make atonement for atonement is “made” IN the sanctuary.
    So after the atoning sacrifice is made in the outer court that blood is brought IN to the sanctuary to “make atonement.”

    Here we see the point that this annual event – is in fact “an annual Sabbath” as are the other annual holy days (for example – Passover). It is “on this day” that sins are atoned for – in fact it says “ALL sins” are atoned for on this “Day of Atonement”. All during the year sins were forgiven – and atonement made – but “on this day” there is a corporate and final day of Atonement. God is showing us that although we as individuals get forgiveness on the very day we confess our sins – yet there is still a “final Day of Atonement” where full and complete atonement is made involving the sanctuary, the people and “ALL their sins”.


    When the events are complete – the entire liturgy as God specified – “in this way” the priest makes atonement on the “Day of Atonement”. Taking out the very first step (at the point of the sacrifice) and stopping the entire discussion at the beginning can not be done.

    </font>[/QUOTE]
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Notice the sequence in the Atonement process regarding the "Sin Offering":

    #1. The sin offering is sacrificed (the Atoning Sacrifice is made)

    #2. THEN atonement is made IN the sanctuary.

    We see the focus on where atonement is made. The text clearly says “make atonement IN the Holy Place (Sanctuary)”. So after the atoning sacrifice is made in the outer court that blood is brought IN to the sanctuary to “make atonement.”

    Notice that the blood of the “Sin Offering” is sprinkled on all that is to be “atoned for” – including the sins of the people. It is not until the atonement in the sanctuary is complete that the part of the scapegoat begins.

    The scapegoat is never sacrificed and never called “The sin offering” once the scapegoat has been “identified”. It plays a part in the final disposition of sin – but not as “a sin offering”.
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Are you asking for a review of Hebrews 7-10?

    Maybe we should start that as its own thread.

    Certainly Hebrews 9 argues the case that the blood He is presenting as our High Priest is His OWN.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    (Notice that in 1Cor 5 we see the statement "Christ OUR PASSOVER IS SACRIFICED" pointing to Christ's fulfillment of the Passover teaching of God).

    We can not "ignore" the fact that God is describing salvation in these Holy Days AND that Christ IS sacrifices ON Passover and raised ON the feast of first fruits and the Spirit poured out ON the day of Pentecost.

    God's salvation timing is bound up with HIS salvation-Gospel descriptions.


    If you had accepted the Heb 4:1 view of "ONE Gospel" to BOTH OT and NT saints - this would not be so surprising.

    ONE gospel plan of salvation "preached to US JUST as it was to THEM ALSO".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Wes asked
    How long does this "priestly chore" continue,


    This shows the end of all priestly roles “ON EARTH”

    The only one that continues is that of the great antitype – Christ’s High Priestly ministry in the true tabernacle.

    Christ is High Priest according to this text – and is officiating with “His OWN blood”.

    Hebrews 7 deals with the change in priesthoods – the MANY priests vs the ONE High Priest Jesus Christ.

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