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Featured 2 Services of Different Styles?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by 12strings, Jun 15, 2012.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    IF the lyrics mention jesus, the Cross they will!

    Do you denty the power of the Spirit to reveal jesus to sinners, regardless if country/rock/hymns etc?
     
  2. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Am I to assume you are familiar with all such noise made in "worship services"?

    God will bring all His elect to salvation. That is a fact. The problem: Does the noise some call music edify God od satisfy the desires of the flesh of some in the congregation?
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    music has no intrisic nature to it though!

    can be good or bad, just depends on what is being sung and why!

    And playing harder beat is NOT in the flesh nor denying the Lord!
     
  4. Fred's Wife

    Fred's Wife Member

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    I agree...

    Ephesians 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

    Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

    I was addressing the the church's compromise with the world's MUSIC.

    And yes I did finish....electricity, air-conditioning, neckties, eyeglasses, and padded seats/pews have nothing to do with how we worship and glorify God in a worship service at church. There are many people who say that the only way to win the world to Christ is to be more like the world. God's Word says that His people are lights to the unbelievers by BEING DIFFERENT, by being separated from the appearance of evil, not by BEING WORLDLY!
     
  5. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Very appropriate Scripture.



    You are correct and you did finish. The comment regarding electricity and others is simply a "red herring".
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    again, music styles in and by themselves NOT godly/ungodly, it depends upon lryics and intent!
     
  7. Fred's Wife

    Fred's Wife Member

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    The following is from Music in the Balance by Frank Garlock and Kurt Woetzel, Copyright 1992, Majesty Music, pp. 55-59:

     
  8. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    Then why do we wear pants instead of robes...if we really wanted to be different and biblical, we'd wear robes, and most men would have beards, and we'd all practice foot-washing.

    BTW...

    This is exactly right...This must be why a 92-year old matriarch of the church told me last month that she really appreciated our Drummer Adam...he compliments our music, not overpowering it.
     
  9. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    The fact remains that when you get down to specifics (Instuments, beat patterns, decibals of rhythm vs. decibals of melody & harmony), there is NO way to link any supposed restrictions to biblical texts.

    Even defining rock music is problematic, because the moment you define it as music with the emphasis on 2 & 4, you will find Rock songs in 3/4 and 7/4.

    What do you do with the Satanist who gets saved, and the Beethoven organ music reminds him of his satanic rituals?
     
  10. ktn4eg

    ktn4eg New Member

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    A "classic" example of what 12 Strings refers to was mentioned in another of my posts on another thread.

    The 2d movement of Haydn's String Quartet 62, Op. 76 #2 was adapted to John Newton's ("Amazing Grace") hymn, "Glorious Things of Thee Are Spoken." This would, according to some, make that music "Christian."

    OTOH, this same music was used in what originally was the Austrian Empire's anthem, and which survives today as Germany's national anthem, "Deutschland, Deutschland, Uber Alles" (Germany, Germany, Over All). This reportedly was one of Adolph Hitler's favorite songs.

    Was Haydn's music "Christian" or was it "worldly"?
     
  11. Fred's Wife

    Fred's Wife Member

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    Wasn't Haydn's music considered "Classical" rather than "worldly"?

    Haydn wrote some beautiful Classical music and the lyrics of traditional Gospel hymns which are adapted to that type of music are beautiful.

    The fact that the "2d movement of Haydn's String Quartet 62, Op. 76 #2" was the Austrian Empire's anthem, was used as Germany's national anthem, and was one of Adolph Hitler's favorite songs, doesn't change the "type" of music that Haydn originally wrote.

    Today we have people adapting the lyrics of traditional Gospel hymns to the tunes of Rock and Roll, hip hop and rap types of music. These are called Gospel "parodies". Though the lyrics may be biblically sound, the music is not Christian, but "worldly" and "sensual". Most of that kind of music is not even understandable. Also, it is more the "rhythm" and the "beat" of the music (rather than the lyrics) on which the listener focuses...rather than on Christ.

    Candy coating Rock and Roll, hip hop, and rap music with Gospel lyrics doesn't make that music "Gospel", or "Christian". All this "candy coating" does is to make the music more "appealing" to the "sensual/flesh".

    IMO, that kind of music (Rock and Roll, hip hop, and rap) is not acceptable music to be used in a church worship service.
     
  12. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    That's exactly the point. Haydn's music was originally written for secular entertainment. So what determines that his is "classical" and Some-one else's is wordly.

    I will say that when the actual songs themselves are taken and given new lyrics, that is almost never helpful, because the associations are so strong one can't get the original lyrics out of their head...but I'm primarily talking about NEW MUSIC...written specifically for the church, played and led using guitars & drums...where is the biblical prohibition against this?
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So one can do 'how Great thou Art" at a slow tempo, yet when Elvis sung it faster paced, that made it bad by just speeding it up?

    is this kinda like swallowing a camal, and straining on a Gnat?
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    so elvis/petra/Third day etc would all be singing 'false christian parody of rock?"
     
  15. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your posts. You obviously know much more about music than I do. I believe you rightly state that
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    again, would those such as third day/petra/elvis etc that sang Gospel at rock beat were sinning then?

    Not singing 'Christian music?"
     
  17. Fred's Wife

    Fred's Wife Member

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    I appreciate your kind comments. I believe the style of music matters in a church worship service and that style should glorify the Lord and keep our focus on Him. In a nutshell, as the "Conclusion" of the following article states, "the message of the music must match the lyrics."

     
  18. Fred's Wife

    Fred's Wife Member

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    Does the rock "beat" of groups such as Petra/Third Day/Elvis, etc. gratify the "flesh" or glorify God? Does the message of the music match the lyrics?

    I am not the judge of whether someone is sinning if they sing a certain style of music, only the Holy Spirit of God will convict a person of sin. If a person feels no Holy Spirit conviction, perhaps that person needs to "examine themselves" (2 Cor. 13:5).
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Doesn't God look at the intent, the motivation? IF a Christian has been blessed by Him to reach out to those in country/rock/hip hop for glory of god, who are we to judge that as unacceptable?
     
  20. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    This is true, but how do we determine which music this is?

    -This Statement goes quite far, farther than either Old-Regular or you have gone thus far in this conversation...it does not simply refer to worship services, but says there are MANY styles that CANNOT BE USED IN THE SERVICE OF A HOLY GOD. This author is saying even outside of church, MANY music styles are simply inherently evil and cannot be used for any purpose that would serve God. I just wanted to point that out, and also point out that he does not define exactly what determines whether a music style "preaches a message Contradictory to the bible."

    Especially when, like Old Reg, things like jazz are thrown in...Are we really prepared to say to a new believer who is playing Augmented 5th chords and 5/8 rhythms on the piano, that not only is such music not useful in a public worship service, but that it IN AND OF ITSELF "preaches a message contrary to the bible"? How does that make any sense.


    1. My years at college studying music overlapped one year with Dan Lucarini's daughter...I have read Dan's book and found it unconvincing because even he, with musical training, does not and cannot say what musically determines whether a music is good or bad.

    2. He seems to think that a better music style equals more acceptance with God, and so (though I don't think this is his intent) would try to make music do what only Christ's mediating Blood can do.

    3. "...Submits to the Word, no more and no less" Dan should take his own advice here, and not ADD restrictions to people that the Word of God does not add. One big reason I feel strongly about this issue is that I believe it is a threat to the doctrine of the sufficiency of scripture, part of which is the idea that we do not have the liberty to tell another person that something is a sin, when it is not clearly put forth in the bible as a sin. I cannot simply go around saying, "Drums are sinful, playing cards are sinful, pants on women are sinful, preaching without a tie is sinful." There may be good reasons to abstain or partake of certain things, but The bible simply doesn't address them.
     
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