2004 SBC Annual Meeting

I met him a couple of years ago at Prestonwood, and had the opportunity to carry on a nice conversation with him. Your assessment is right on! He is the right man to follow my pastor as president.

 

Excuse me, as a Southern Baptist homeschooling mom, I'm a little confused....


Interesting quotes from SBC leaders….

“Glen Schultz hits the nail squarely on the head! With keen insight, years of personal experience and a heart of conviction, Glen challenges Christian parents and leaders alike to recognize the sweeping changes in education over the past several decades. Nothing less than spiritual warfare can reverse the tide of total secularization of education and society. Every parent, every pastor, and every educator must link arms to educate our children according to Kingdom principles. The very future of our society is at stake.” – James T. Draper Jr., President, LifeWay Christian Resources

"The world is too much with us and so, while we are not trying to cocoon our children, we don't want to put our children in a position to fail. I think Christian schools put children in a position to succeed spiritually."- Jack Graham, SBC President, Baptist Press

"We've prepared our kids to go to college and get a good job. We're not preparing them to think and act from a biblical perspective. In viewing education as a means of passing on a Christian heritage to the next generation", Schultz said, "I just don't find in Scripture where we should allow the unsaved to explain life to our children. You can't have Christian education without the Bible, and that means unsaved teachers and a secular education cannot properly prepare our children for eternity."- Dr. Glen Schultz, LifeWay, Baptist Press

"The Christian school movement in our churches is going to take the denomination by storm in the next 10 to 15 years. By the end of that time it will be as unusual to find a church that is not sponsoring or supporting a Christian school and a home school network as it is today to find a church that does not have a Sunday School program. This movement and the homeschool movement together are going to radically reshape the way America does school in the next two decades."- Ed Gamble, (www.sbacs.org), Baptist Press

Gamble said, "The vast majority of Baptist kids are being educated by the Chaldeans. So we shouldn't be real surprised when they act like Chaldeans" and ultimately quit going to church altogether….He labels the argument that children provide "salt and light" in the public schools as "nonsense." Instead, Gamble said, "mostly what happens is the salt and light of the enemy winds up infecting our kids."

 

The Pinckney-Shortt Resolution called for a full-scale exodus from public schools by all Southern Baptists, regardless of the situation and options available to each individual Southern Baptist family. For my family, we utilized public schools with careful teaching at home. With certain other schools even within our own school district, this would not have worked. This is a family issue, not a convention issue. The key, regardless of the decision made by each family, is careful attention and responsibility on the part of parents for the education of their children.

If you would like to view our extensive, and sometimes heated debates on the subject, check out threads within the "Baptist Denominations" forum, the "Homeschool" forum, and the "Current Events/News" forum here on the Baptist Board.

(By the way, Jack Graham's youngest son attended public schools. His statement you quoted needs to be taken in the context of the conversation from which it was taken.)

 

http://www.sbtexas.com/texan/issues/news.asp?49

My apologies, here is the link to the entire article, from which I drew the quote from Dr. Graham.

 

My confusion lies in the fact that there have been many articles on Kingdom Education over the last two years, published by the Baptist Press and LifeWay. There has been an association created to support and encourage Southern Baptist Christian schools, such as Prestonwood Academy. This association is obtaining scholarships from Southern Baptist colleges and universities, and leadership development opportunities for it's students. We have received a website, and an opportunity to buy LifeWay's resources.

I agree it is a parental choice, but once the choice is made for Kingdom Education, the denominational support is very one-sided, to Christian schools, and not equally to include support to the decision to homeschool. We live within twenty minutes of Prestonwood Academy, and even if that were our first choice, instead of homeschooling, the tuition would prevent that option. PCA offers no outreach opportunities to the local Southern Baptist homeschooling community, because I have inquired personally.

So, even though we are tithing members of a Southern Baptist church, which DOES contribute to the Cooperative Program, (a rarity these days!), which helps support missions and our educational institutions, our Kingdom Educational choice, which after searching the Scriptures is the most Biblical, seems to be not a very "popular" one after all???

esgwat

 

I agree with you whole-heartedly. You may find it interesting though, that half of this year's SBC Resolutions Committee members are active homeschoolers. Homeschooling is quickly emerging, but has just not reached the mainstream yet. I admire the vast majority of the families I know who homeschool. It would be my pleasure to personally introduce you to some families at Prestonwood who, in my opinion, do an incredible job in homeschooling, and have begun a grass-roots support system for homeschool families.

I apologize that PCA did nothing to help you. At Prestonwood (the church, not the academy) we want to be a resource for believers and churches, and if you will send me a PM, I will make arrangements to introduce you to others that can assist you.

 

Thank you so much for your gracious offer of help from Prestonwood.

Our family has a wonderful support system in our local Christian, non-denominational, homeschool support group. We now attend a church with a strong emphasis on discipleship, sound doctrine, and most importantly, a dear, beloved pastor who takes very seriously his responsibility to "shepherd his flock".

What we do NOT have is denominational support. We do not have a way to communicate with Southern Baptist institutions of higher learning. We do not have "guidance counselors" to help us navigate the sea of red tape in the college preparation process. We do not have leadership development opportunities, mentorships, athletic networking opportunities such as the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, competitive sports, and the musical options your son enjoys. Well, we'll just have to add these to the ever-growing list of hurdles the Southern Baptist homeschooling family must jump on their own, without assistance from the church. (Yes, we knew what we were giving up when we withdrew our daughters from public school. We still pay the SAME AMOUNT of taxes, as if they were enrolled, yet are denied extra-curricular access.


We do NOT have a voice within the convention. During this whole resolution debate, I never saw LifeWay or the SBC ask laypeople to voice their opinions. I have been to the LifeWay/homeschool website every day for the last two weeks, expecting to see something about the resolution, but nothing was posted. I have waited for a notice, published in the Baptist Press, for the laypeople to contact their local and state conventions with their opinions on the resolution, but again, there was nothing. And the SBC wonders why the laity is so apathetic to the same-sex marriage issue? It's because we are never asked to voice our views.

From what I could tell from the previous threads you mentioned, certain SBC leaders decided the fate of the resolution, and then let their position be known. They said the resolution didn't represent Southern Baptists. How did they know this? Was there a polling of the pews that we were not aware of?

The HSLDA publicly endorsed the resolution. I'm curious as to what the response from the SBC will be. Instead of a mass exodus of children from the public schools, will there now be a mass exodus of homeschooling families from the Southern Baptist Convention?

What a sad day that would be!

esgwat in Allen, Texas

 

It is my pleasure to help, and the offer stands. Through the group I mentioned, organized under the Prestonwood Children's Ministry rather than PCA, and involving homeschoolers from all over the metroplex, many of the things you mentioned, including competitive sports and music instruction, are now being offered to homeschool families. (In fact, their basketball teams have become very competitive in TAPS leagues against private school teams.) Again, if you want to meet these people, I'll introduce you.

As far as the resolution situation, you need to understand the manner in which SBC resolutions have been governed since the dawn of time. Resolutions are submitted privately to the Resolutions Committee for review, and the committee decides what needs to be addressed on the floor of the convention. If a resolution author finds that his resolution has been declined, he can follow convention procedures to get a reading of the resolution and request a vote. Pinckney and Shortt were out of line in releasing their resolution to the public, and making is a news item in advance of the convention. I don't know if you read the resolution, but I was outraged when I read it a couple of months ago. And if a committee comprised of individuals in which half are active homeschoolers found the resolution out of line, I must respect their opinion. (FYI- one committee member is a homeschooler in Allen.) The conclusions drawn from the scriptures cited were illogical and extreme. As for Pinckney and Shortt, they need to set an example for their own children by following the rules, or find another venue for their activism.

At your request, I will provide you (privately) the name and contact information for a family at Prestonwood that was instrumental in organizing the very system you are hoping to find.

 

Ooops... double posted!

 

I'm glad the resolution regarding the exiting of public schools was voted down.

My applause to those of you that do train your children to see thru the Scriptural/Christ centered lense.

I've worked with Children as a lay leader in a middle class SBC church for many years. It is my experience, that 80 - 90 % of the children in the church(95% of which go to public school) are not even getting a peek through that lense. Most of the women/mothers in the church work outside the home. As Baptists, we believe that each child/teen/adult must come to their own realization that they need Christ as their Savior. So until they come to that born again experience, they are children in need of a Savior. My statement is that at least within my Church, most of the children are not receiving that training at home. Family Devotionals...nicht! Family prayer times...nicht! Bible Reading within the family...nicht!!!

I have faith in a mighty God....

 

I agree. I thought it went very well. My son had an incredible time there and wants to return as a delegate next year. Lets see - 23,000 members for 10 delegate slots - I'm guessing he will not go!

The preaching and worship was a joy to watch online. I wish I had been there!

 

David,

If he really wants to go as a messenger (and you're willing to foot the bill) you might be pleasantly surprised. I'm not too familiar with all the inner-workings of your church, but I'm willing to bet that there have been years when not all ten messengers went...or when some of the ten were filled in by staff members.

Find out who you need to talk to (Mike Buster?) let thenm know early that your son would like to attend next year. Now that Jack isn't the President, there likely won't be as many people vying for the spots.

 

RandR:

You may be correct about future years, but I'm not holding my breath. The past six or seven years all slots have been taken by senior and mid-level ministerial staff, with the exception of one slot for the deacon chairman. Given my son's level of service and standing in the church, they may take him just for the novelty of it, and as a favor to our family. I am friends with all of the ministerial staff, and I will suggest the idea with McKinley and Buster just to give them a year to consider it.

As for footing the bill, my son is on staff at the church and has already said he was willing to pay his own way. I'm still gasping for air after that statement. If only he had said this about this year's convention and his other two church trips this month!

Thanks,
David

PS- With each one of your posts I get a little closer to figuring out who you are. Why do I care? I really don't know. But I know that we know each other...

 

I returned from Indianapolis yesterday---my favorite part of the Convention was the Convention Sermon preached by Steve Gaines of FBC, Gardendale, Alabama (Blackbird predicts---keep your eyes on this guy for a bid for upcomeing Convention President---in near future)---he'll rise to be one of the younger generation's part of Conservative resurgence

I was standing there in the center listening and thinking---"Mercy! His wife must've fed him some Gunpowder this morning for Breakfast!!!"

I got in on the last half of the Pastor's Conference on Monday afternoon---Jerry Vines preached the 4pm message---Dr. Vines is one of my SBC heroes!

Blackbird

 

blackbird,

No offense to your predictive prowess, but Gaines as a future president wouldn't likely catch anybody off guard given his carreer and involvement with "the cause" over the years. Better let him become president of the Pastor's Conference first though. That's usually the first step on the path and the first sign that "the boys" have put their stamp of approval on him.

Problem is...he's in line behind Johnny Hunt, Mac Bruson, Claude Thomas, and others. At two years each, that's a while. And illustrative of the problem with the current "system" (much like a RCC college of cardinals) by which our "leaders" are picked.

Jimmy Draper made some poignant observations about the future of the convention and younger pastors. Problem is, those who most needed to hear what he was saying can't see past the throng of sycophants who line up to get their Bibles autographed in order to see the truth of Draper's observations.

 

"My question is what exactly is normalcy in the SBC if not a politically driven agenda? Look what has occurred just this past year at SWBTS! Hemphill and Crutchley fired, Bullock not granted tenure and not because they were liberal in any sense of the word."

It has been my experience that those professors along with Lorin Cranford would make most of the current professors look ignorant. I do not believe it has anything to do with theology but getting rid of the past SWBTS professors--good or bad.

 

SWBTS is in need of something...maybe a change will do them good.

 

Evenb though I have replanted one church and responsible for planting two I have never been accused of not being committed to Christ but I have been told that I am not Baptist (SBC) enough.