400 TOP RANKING THEOLOGY PROFESSIONALS AGREE

I have done the same thing with some issues. But I don't think that is the point I was making. We must examine things by Scripture, not by who else holds them. A view may be found in the popular circles because it is true. It may be found because it is false and appeals to man's base nature. There is no way to tell based on the "popular"ness of the view. We can tell only by Scripture, which is why I reject your premise that the more popular something is, the more suspect it is. Popular-ness is not a sufficient guide to that.

Again, I don't know that I accept your analysis. That may be true on some levels, but not on others. I just don't find this compelling argumentation.

What about the Rapture for a start?</font>[/QUOTE]You were referring to something "unscriptural." The Rapture most certainly does not fit into that category. We might disagree on the timing of the Rapture, but not on its existence. There is a time when Christ will return for his children. When that time is is a matter of discussion. The weight of exegetical evidence falls towards the Pretribulational position, no matter the fact that it is held by a minority of people. But that is a matter that is decided by exegesis and the approach to certain passages. Under no circumstances can it be called "antiScriptural" or "unbiblical."

Things in the area you suggest here would be things like the health, wealth, and prosperity gospel ... something unbiblical that gets a lot of air time.

 

What about the Rapture for a start?

In the love of Christ,
Tim </font>[/QUOTE]What about it? Again, be specific.

 

Majority of who??? That is my point. What standard are you using to judge the majority by?? The majority may be wrong and they may be right ... but the way we know is not by counting heads; it is by comparing with Scripture. In Exod 20, the majority of Israel espoused the theology of the 10 Commandments. They were right. In the book of Acts, the majority of the apostles embraced the Messiahship of Christ. They were right. Even today, the majority of people believe that God exists. Should we call that into question simply because a majority holds it?

My point is, majorities are not proper methods for questioning or subscribing to truth. The truth is not decided by majority vote or majority adherence. That is why I question the whole premise of this. I suspect, you between you and I, that this whole issue is largely directed at eschatology ... that you are trying to call into question a certain eschatology. Which is why I point out that by your standards, your own eschatology should be questioned because it seems the majority of people in evangelicalism favor your eschatology, not mine.

I agree ... but this method you are espousing disproves your position on the Ratpure, for the majority of people do not espouse a pretribulational rapture. Therefore, using your standard, their denial of it should cause you to lean towards it, not away from it.

The problem with this in your mind is that you will say I have picked hte wrong majority to judge by. And that sends me back to the beginning of this post: What majority? And who decides what that majority is?

These are invalid theological methods.

 

In either case, the passage in the Bible is not releveant. That was 400 non-believers. They were not led by God in any way (including intrepreting the Bible). 400 actual believers would be a different story. I don't think the size of the population of belief should have any affect on whether we think the belief is even suspect. Every belief should be suspect and checked against the word of God in every generation.

 

But I would caution that coincidence cannot be considered his will. Having studied the issue, I would consider a church who practiced open communion as a church out of order. Whether or not I would join that church or not would depend on a number of factors. My point is that this is not a valid way of determining things.

 

There is an element of love we often forget:

Revelation 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

 

Perhaps I was not clear. God does use teaching to instruct us. My point was that false teaching may confirm a false idea (wihtout particular reference to open or closed communion). The fact that the two happen around the same time should not be construed as a confirmation of anything from the Lord.

 

These questions???

I see them far frequently. What was the last bookstore you were in that didn't have "The Pre Wrath Rapture" or books by Mathison, Gerstner, Horton, etc?? I see those books all the time. I rarely see Pretrib books in bookstores. So, in my experience, your premise points to my conclusion.

I can't think of a radio preacher I have heard speak on the pretribulation rapture. I know MacArthur believes it but I have never heard him speak on it outside of a Q&A question on a tape that I have. Very few speak on it to my knowledge. But I don't listen to many of them so I may not be the best source. Perhaps you could tell us which preachers you are referring to and when they have talked about it. I think you are exaggerating the issue here some.

See above ... quite a few in my experience. The bookstores I have been in usually have more non pretrib books than pretrib books.

I don't think LaHaye/Jenkins really counts in this discussion since they are not theology books. They are novels with little relation to Scripture. I think most semi-educated pretribs and perhaps even non-educated ones agree with that. Next time you are in a bookstore, omit the novels and count the theology books. Include the systematics as well. Then come back and tell us what the count was.

That may be a fact. But that is not the issue. The more important fact is that it lines up with Scripture. In theological circles, the pretrib position far and away the minority position, which in your theory espoused here should bring additional support to it.

But my point in this whole thing is that you are basing your issues on an entirely wrong platform. Neither you nor anyone should not care how many people believe a position. That is not important. Why would you not presume that a particular position held by sincere believes has validity?? Sometimes positions are popular because they are right. Sometimes positions that are wrong become popular. But none of that is relevant in the least. The fact that 400 top ranking theology professionals agree on this undermines your whole theory. That 400 voice choir should cause you to reel in skepticism.

Again, I think you have constructed a theory here to refute pretribulationism (since that seems what most of your posts are about on this board -- not that there is anything wrong with that. You can certianly post about whatever you want). But I think if you objectively apply your theory, it works for me, not for you.

Let me say it again: The number of people who believe a particular position is irrelevant. It should not cause you either to believe it or to doubt it.

 

So long as what I believe lines up with what God says, He and I make a majority!

I have to agree with Larry. Just because something is held by a majority doesn't make it wrong. It is the opinion itself that must stand as either right or wrong. The number of adherents is of no consequence.

Don't tell me this thread is about to highjacked into a pre-trib/post-trib rigamarole. I can live with someone not seeing things the same as other people, but, please, let's find a different subject (or at least open a new thread for the arguement). No amount of name-calling or name-dropping is going to change any minds, so next subject please.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

The last bookstores I was in were as I said. If you experience if different, that is fine. It really doesn't matter. I am sure the lahaye/jenkins deal has a whole lot more to do with making money. All of that is irrelevant to my point.

My point is that the proper basis for questioning theology is not popularity but Scripture.

 

Lifeway is the publishing house of the Southern Baptist Convention, Tim. I wouldn't expect to find a whole lot of the type of literature that you have mentioned. I'm sure that they can order it, but they usually don't carry such on the shelves.

Here in my neck of the woods, we have Pathway (publishing house of the Church of God, headquarters in Cleve.), White Wing (pub. house of the Church of God of Prephecy, HQ in Cleve.), T&D Wholesale (wholesale Christian book store, does mail-order as well), Christian Book Liquidators (paperbacks $2, hardbacks $3, never know what they might have in...closeouts from other stores), His Promise (small independant Christian bookstore). We have a Books-A-Million and Waldenbooks, but I never go there. I have to go to Chattanooga (about 30 miles) to get to a Lifeway, but it always worth the trip .

Although I live in the heart of "enemy territory", we are well blessed with good Christian Bookstores...even if a lot of the stuff they publish is pretty much hokey.

Oh, and personally, I don't just take Dr. Soandso's word on anything . I will take it under consideration, but will go to the word of God to find out the truth of the matter. That is why I am able to stand on my beliefs with conviction, because I know the foundation that they are built on.

In Christ,
Trotter