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A Crooked and Perverse Nation...

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Sojourn_er, Dec 12, 2005.

  1. Sojourn_er

    Sojourn_er New Member

    Dec 11, 2005
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    Is America truly 'CHRISTIAN' nation?



    1Pe 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
    1Pe 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
    1Pe 2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
    For the complete article please go to this letter at Christian Worldview Network.

    Edited to remove copyrighted material. KR

    [ December 12, 2005, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: Squire Robertsson ]
  2. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Apr 25, 2001
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    Nor was it intended to be. The concept of the founders was that each individual was sovereign before God- that it was wrong to impose a king or pope between God and man in matters of religion and morality.

    Thus, they had an idea to limit government to primarily preserving the rights of individuals. This ideal has been greatly eroded often in the name of making America a more Christian nation, ie. many of the civil rights initiatives, welfare state, and foreign military intervention for "righting injustices" rather than defending our nation.

    Yes. And the Founders had in mind to allow maximum liberty to individuals in their religious convictions while restricting the government significantly in legislating matters of conscience.

    Baptists overwhelmingly supported the rebels during the Revolution. Their battle cry: "No king but Jesus".

    The contention of the early Americans wasn't that they wanted independence. They wanted the KING to obey British law and allow the colonies the rights, freedoms, and representation they had in England.

    When the king disobeys his own laws... it is better to obey God than men.

    Does the gospel not include opposing murder? Wickedness in government? Wickedness in society?

    I agree that there is danger in making a ministry of politics. There is also a danger when preachers ignore abuses of power by government. Jesus didn't.

    Where politics and the gospel overlap... let the gospel be proclaimed all the louder.
    You're obviously right- they should have never rebelled even against a government that violated its own laws and principles and forced Baptists and other non-conformists to pay taxes to the Church of England. At the same time, Baptists were persecuted heavily for daring to preach the gospel... and this by a "Christian" church/state and its "Christian" king.

    Prove it with scripture.

    Which do you have a problem with- life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness (originally "property")?

    You don't think it is God who grants "life"?

    You don't think God will hold those accountable who stand in the way of the "liberty" to serve and worship Him?... or even to rebel against Him?

    God hates sin... God hated Esau... God hates the wicked... but if you are going to say something about God you should support it with scripture. Please show where God hates "pluralism".

    You should then leave this board forthwith... and your Baptist church and join the closests Episcopalian church (Church of England USA).

    The idea of the "Christian nation" is strongly linked to the abuses of the Holy Roman Empire. The concept taught that church and state were to be merged into one earthly enterprise. The leaders of this organization whether the RCC or British Empire were supposedly endowed with divine rights to rule over men in both civil and religious matters.

    Separation of church and state is a Baptist principle intended to keep the President or King out from between the believer and God.

    So God would be more pleased if we forced "conversions" or persecuted people who didn't conform to the theology of the ruler?

    Don't know him. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to take it up with him? Matthew 18, Galatians 6

    Nope. Parents are commissioned by God to care for their children and teach them godliness... Godly government... as our founders intended ours to be... is commissioned to protect the rights of people in obedience to 1 Peter 2.

    What a web of deceit you are caught up in... eariler you protested that God grants inalienable rights... here you protest God allowing an evil ruler to deny one of those rights.

    There were many Jewish seditionists during Jesus day... can you find one place where He condemned them or their activities?

    Sure it was... silence in that case was consent. A man either resists a government or consents to it.

    Or maybe your post is wrong... that answer gets my vote even though I am in agreement with what seems to be your starting point. American Christians are far too concerned about kingdom USA and too littled concerned for the Kingdom of Christ.
    Or perhaps sinful kings disobeyed and manipulated both scripture and law to the point where men of conscience finally said, "No!"

    The English monarch was the head of both the church and state. He was thought to rule over men's lives, fortunes, AND their souls.
  3. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator

    Jul 4, 2000
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    My question to you Sojorn_er is:
    If the answer is a, all is well and good. If the answer is b, you have violated someone's copyright and as moderator of this forum, I will remove it.