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A few Questions about Divorce

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Rev. Lowery, Nov 21, 2005.

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  1. Rev. Lowery

    Rev. Lowery New Member

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    Just had two questions.

    Q...Why do Baptist, in general, believe if your divorced you cant hold an Elder, Deacon, or Pastoral role in Church. But, if you where once an alcoholic, former criminal, or wife abuser and are now saved your good as long as your not or have not been divorced/remarried

    Q...What does Matthew 19:9 mean and how does it apply to 1 Timothy 3:1-13

    My Answer-> Romans 3:23, Romans 6:4........We all have sinned and once saved our old life doesnt matter any more its what we do with our lives after salvation that counts, Right ? Christ was clear on divorce in Matthew 19:9
    and Paul was clear in his letter to Timothy and the Bible never contridicts its self, Right ? So, if I am lost and my wife gets pregnant by another man and we divorce for that reason would that fall under Matthew 19:9, yes it would.
    Then time passes and I come to know Christ as my Lord and Savior but before that time I have remarried. Am I commiting adultry, not according to Matthew 19:9 I am not. Do I have more than one wife, according to the law of the land and Matthew 19:9 I have only one wife so why then could I not preach ?????? I feel though that Matthew 19:9 applys to those who are saved as well, why would it not, but with prayer I believe your marriage is always able to be saved. But, if your lost how can you pray without faith? Ephesians 2:8


    Please understand I am not against doctrine. When doctrine goes against the word of God then its ungodly..I ask this only because I have had several baptist be it southern, free will, independent, or baptist say that there doctrine doesnt allow for divorced men to preach in there churches. When they should ask, Where you lost when you got divorced? and Did you divorce because of adultery?, These are the correct question to ask. If answered according to scripture there should be no problem.

    If I am wrong please correct me.

    P.S. And Matthew 19:6 or Mark 10:9 doesnt apply. If you dont believe in God or are lost how can God join you.


    Rev. Jerry D. Lowery
    email [email protected]
    http://www.truechristministries.com
     
    #1 Rev. Lowery, Nov 21, 2005
  2. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    I'm afraid, Brother, you fail to understand the institution of Holy Matrimony. God places more on the insititution of marriage more than men do, just as your post has done in contradiction to the Law of God.

    You mention ultimate forgiveness, but then in the very same breath you fashion the Word of God, which is able to save your soul, into a weapon formed against the very one you should NOT have hardened your heart against.

    The question I have for you, according to Mathew 19, does God allow a hardened heart to have precedence over forgiveness? No.

    What God hath joined together, let no man put asunder: if marriage isn't something that God infuses two into one as in being no longer twain, but one fleash, then how is it man can divide that which God put together as that one flesh to make twain again? Man can't; only death ends a marriage.
     
    #2 Salamander, Nov 21, 2005
  3. Rev. Lowery

    Rev. Lowery New Member

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    I agree but you use the word holy and matrimony together if you dont believe in God how can martimony be holy. Also your post doesnt answer either question.

    """What God hath joined together, let no man put asunder: if marriage isn't something that God infuses two into one as in being no longer twain, but one fleash, then how is it man can divide that which God put together as that one flesh to make twain again? Man can't; only death ends a marriage."""

    So then what Christ says in matthew 19:9 is irrelavant? He would not have said it if it wasnt important Christ clearly makes an exceptions here to divorce. So is God contridicting Himself? No. He is making an exception...

    How have I contradicted the Law of God ?
    I use only scripture.
    Where did I contradict God ?

    """You mention ultimate forgiveness, but then in the very same breath you fashion the Word of God, which is able to save your soul, into a weapon formed against the very one you should NOT have hardened your heart against."""

    How have I fashioned the word of God its as plain as day? How is my heart hard?


    Rev. Jerry D. Lowery
    email [email protected]
    http://www.truechristministries.com
     
    #3 Rev. Lowery, Nov 21, 2005
  4. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    Dear Rev. Lowery,
    Your denominational associations indicates you are not a Baptist.

    This prevents you from being able to post onto the Baptist only Forums.

    There are other forums available for Christians that you are welcome and encouraged to post to.

    Thanks,
    May God Bless,
    Bro. Dallas

    Frogman- Co-Moderator
     
    #4 Frogman, Nov 21, 2005
  5. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    There are several differences in sins such as those you listed, and in divorce.

    To begin with, marriage requires taking an oath to God. Ergo divorce requires breaking an oath to God. None of the other sins you listed ever required that a man take an oath to God to the contrary.

    Above that - the bible sets higher standards for Deacons and Elders, and sets these men up as role models. The responsibility (and honor) for setting an example to other members of the congregation should go to those individuals who are BEST qualified and a failed marriage is a blemish.
     
    #5 TexasSky, Nov 21, 2005
  6. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    That's not a hard fast rule. But those who adhere to it cite the biblical mandate of managing one's house well (divorce means you didn't manage your house well), or being the husband of one wife (believing that a remarried person actually has two wives). Both of these references are a bit nebulous and selective in their application, but church have the autonomous right to apply the conditions as they deem appropriate.

    If your wife gets pregnant by another man, your divorce from her is scripturally appropriate, regardless of whether you're saved or not.

    Of course not, since your first marital covenant no longer exists.

    I follow your reasoning, and, being a divorced and remarried man myself, I concur, but I also understand that the church is allowed to put whatever considions upon the office of elder, etc, as it sees fit. I can argue that until I'm blue in the face, but it's their' right nonetheless.

    That is not a doctrinal issue, it's an application issue. Churches are allowed applications and methodologies of their own choosing, so long as scriptural doctrine is not compromised.
     
    #6 Johnv, Nov 21, 2005
  7. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    Dear Brother Lowery,
    I am also moving this thread topic to the Other Denominations Forum.

    Brother Dallas
    Frogman Co-Moderator
     
    #7 Frogman, Nov 21, 2005
  8. tamborine lady

    tamborine lady Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    ***Inappropriate Statement deleted***

    We have had this discussion before and it only serves to divide us more and more!!

    Peace,

    Tam

    [ November 22, 2005, 12:10 AM: Message edited by: Frogman ]
     
    #8 tamborine lady, Nov 21, 2005
  9. DeadMan

    DeadMan New Member

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    Read 1 Timothy 3:8-13. They aren't allowed to serve in that capacity. But we are all forgiven of our sins if we ask and repent!
     
    #9 DeadMan, Nov 21, 2005
  10. Rev. Lowery

    Rev. Lowery New Member

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    If the issue divides then theres something wrong either its the Church View or the Word of God.

    I am not here to cause trouble by no means.
    I have been asked to be removed from your forums though as i can see I am not wanted and my posts are controversal, yet bible based, and not contradicting but still I stand firm in the Word.


    Rev. Jerry D. Lowery
    email [email protected]
    http://www.truechristministries.com
     
    #10 Rev. Lowery, Nov 21, 2005
  11. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    Dear Brother Lowery,
    No one asked you to leave the Board;

    You were only informed to post in the Other Christian Denoms. forums.

    This is because you did not identify yourself as a Baptist in your profile.

    The BaptistBoard posting policy is that only active members of Baptist churches may post in the Baptist Only Forums.

    Everyone is asked to post according to this rule.

    May God Bless,
    Bro. Dallas Eaton
     
    #11 Frogman, Nov 22, 2005
  12. Rev. Lowery

    Rev. Lowery New Member

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    Bump !!!
     
    #12 Rev. Lowery, Nov 22, 2005
  13. Rev. Lowery

    Rev. Lowery New Member

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    Does marriage require an oath to God ? Is all marriage of God ? Are all Marriages Joined by God ?

    No! If this is the case then we would have to say that Gay marriage is of God.

    So if not all marriage is of God then how is a divorce between two homosexuals or two lost people breaking Gods rules. Gods rules and way of Living apply to all But only believers see the affects of said application.

    And I still have no answer to matthew 19:9 and how you feel it applys to 1 Timothy 3

    Paul was telling Timothy and the Church, saved people, These standards how can we apply these to non believers we would verywell not ask a lost person to minister to us. Salvation clears us of all our past and how we walk from that point on is what matters. Paul is saying, in 1 Tim. 3, Christians must be this to hold this office. If your lost you dont care about what Paul says in 1 Tim. 3 how are you to know that one day you'll be needed in a position in a Church. God forgives and Forgets but, we as men cant ? Thats Wrong and Bad Doctrine.

    1 Timothy 3:8-13 means be faithful to your wife
    Matthew 5:28 means lust is adultery

    How many preachers and ministers have lusted after a woman EVER, while married, if so they are disquilified according to 1 Tim. 3 or even been drunk, or ever fought, or ever, coveted.

    1 Tim. 3 is a standard its not a command of God its How Paul feels a Church should be ran.

    Rev. Jerry D. Lowery
    email [email protected]
    http://www.truechristministries.com

    [ November 22, 2005, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: Rev. Lowery ]
     
    #13 Rev. Lowery, Nov 22, 2005
  14. tamborine lady

    tamborine lady Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    I have a question. Can anyone show me a marraige ceremony in the bible?

    Peace,

    Tam
     
    #14 tamborine lady, Nov 22, 2005
  15. tamborine lady

    tamborine lady Active Member

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    BUMP
     
    #15 tamborine lady, Nov 23, 2005
  16. Rev. Lowery

    Rev. Lowery New Member

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    I couldnt find one.
     
    #16 Rev. Lowery, Nov 24, 2005
  17. tamborine lady

    tamborine lady Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    I couldn't either!! :rolleyes:

    Wonder where the ones we use today came from, and why??

    Tam
     
    #17 tamborine lady, Nov 24, 2005
  18. hillclimber

    hillclimber New Member

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    What are you looking for Rev?
     
    #18 hillclimber, Nov 24, 2005
  19. Rich_UK

    Rich_UK <img src =/6181.jpg>

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    Tam, I've often wondered that myself!
     
    #19 Rich_UK, Nov 24, 2005
  20. Rev. Lowery

    Rev. Lowery New Member

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    As far as I can tell marriage is an agreement between a man and a woman made before God. They agree to support and care for one another till death. I believe thats what God intended from the beginning.

    Moses gave us the bill of divorce

    Christ said thats not right except in cases of adultery.

    So 2 things end a marriage death and adultery

    death is absolute
    adultery is your choice rather to end the marriage or not if you give a bill of divorce for adultery God grants that as in death also.

    OH! just had a thought I had someone say 1 Tim. 3 means only married once.

    Come on now does that make sense.
    What they are saying is if I am a Pastor, Deacon, or Elder and my wife dies and I remarry I must resign my office. Come on now everyone knows thats not correct where we come into problems at is when you throw in Matthew 19:9 Then things get interesting but thats another forum topic.

    I dwell on this I know but its something where our thinking needs to be corrected.

    Rev. Jerry D. Lowery
     
    #20 Rev. Lowery, Nov 24, 2005
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