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Featured A letter to prospective Pastors

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by Johnf, Nov 15, 2016.

  1. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I agree. The modern church no longer trains men by the old fashioned apprenticeship method. I will be the first to say that every pastor should have a good study knowledge of Hebrew and Greek (and I don't mean looking at Strong's numbers and looking the word up in a lexicon).

    But the practical aspects of apprenticeship and be invaluable to a pastor, especially in a smaller church where he labors alone or with only talented laymen to assist him.
     
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  2. Johnf

    Johnf Member
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    I think maybe you don't understand how the process works in my area of the country. Each SBC church is autonomous in how a pastor is selected. We advertise the position in the state and national SBC pastor periodicals. We received resumes for 2 months before we started the process and got them from 20 different states and 4 different countries. So we can't control how many we receive, except by limiting the time which we will receive them. Not sure what you are used to, but it sounds like you are accustomed to a completely different system.
     
  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    It works the same everywhere and I am SBC. Part of the problem is we as pastors are failing to disciple other pastors. It should not be needed to call a stranger in from another part of the country. However, since churches are in the current state they are it is what it is.

    First, what the committee needs to do and set a number ( a low one) which they believe they can reasonably handle going through which will allow them to stay focused on the spiritual nature of what they are doing without being overwhelmed.

    Second, when they create an ad, include in it the number of resume's the committee is willing to accept at one time. Also set a short time span in which the ad will be in place. Once the end date has been reached take it down, or once the number of resume's set has been reached take it down. Which ever comes first.

    Third, stay away from a focus on things like grammar, dates etc. Resume's can be done a number of ways and what you have criticized is your personal preference not a biblical qualification. Do not treat the former as if it is the latter. Men who send out resume's that are full of grammatical errors will also often show a sense of laziness about them in other areas. Let them all come through rather than just the grammar issue alone. Resume's with a few grammatical errors may just be an oversight and not a reflection of character or work ethic.

    Fourth, experience can be a factor but should never be a disqualifying factor all by itself. God does not call people based on experience. The call of God is the thing not experience.

    Fifth, look for those who have been discipled by another pastor more so than education and experience. The committee needs to have a time of dedicated prayer and fasting over each candidate. I know this is tough but if you are going to be on the committee then you need to do the work.

    If proper work does not produce a clear answer from God with the first round of resume's then re-post the ad and do the same thing again.

    I will warn you *Do not call a guy who has the so called right education and experience but has never been discipled by another pastor. This is a huge mistake churches make. You need to be able to hear from the pastor that discipled him. It will work to eliminate young guys looking to work their way up the ladder of bigger churches, bigger salaries etc.

    You guys can do what you want but what I have seen out of you so far will only gain you problems.
     
  4. Johnf

    Johnf Member
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    So what you are saying is still arbitrary. I think setting a low number is counter productive. I think out of the first 20 resumes we recieved only 3-4 made it out of the first round. Several had no education and no pastoral experience at all. I did mention the process 10 months correct? By the time we got it narrowed down to the final 8 we had spent countless hours in prayer. They ranged from 5 to 30 years experience, most had Master's degrees and more than 1/2 had PHD's. The one we called has 12 years in the ministry.

    I'm sorry, but your second point is just completely unrealistic and unreasonable. I think denying a man a chance to be heard isn't biblical in any way. There is simply no way to do this in a fair manor. We did set what we thought was a reasonable time span of 2 months. Honestly, the bulk of them came in the first 2 weeks. I think by week 2 we had about 150 with another 60 or so coming in the next 6 weeks. The man we called was in those 60.

    Third: How is doing your best on work you do unbiblical? Didn't Paul say that we should run a race to win? I always interpreted that to mean that whatever you do, it should be your best. If a man isn't willing to do that on his first contact with a church it's only natural to assume that will be his highest standard practice of preparation. Do you not think it's important for a committee to search for a man who is prepared to teach his flock?

    Fourth and fifth experience was a factor, but not the greatest focus. Had you read my last response, you would know that we called a man with zero sr. pastor experience and who had be discipled by extremely Godly men for 12 years through different ministerial positions. Most of his final references were not on his reference list at all, but were pastors that he had worked under.

    Honestly, you just seem like you want to argue. I'm sure you can find something in here to nitpick, but I'm no longer going to respond. Maybe you are not communicating in a way that conveys your intent, if so, I apologize.

    Have you ever been on a search committee?
    Our process was exactly what was recommended by the SBC pastor search committee handbook, including the time and manner in which we advertised and received resumes.
     
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Honestly
    you just seem like you don't want to hear from anyone who disagrees with you. That's ok but the unbiblical nature of the op is why we have such ungodly churches. I am a pastor, church revitalization is my life's work. I have been trained in it and I am doing it. You are some committee member that happened to be available who wants to nitpick pastors with no spiritual concern for the process (based on the op). Good luck with that.
     
  6. Johnf

    Johnf Member
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    So we are getting to the point here. The process is daunting and you don't really seem to grasp the time that we spend in it both spiritually and carnally. Like it or not there has to be a process that goes beyond what you seem to understand. The letter was intended to help men get through the first step in the resume process. It does not take into account probably 90% of the process of calling a pastor. If you don't believe that you should present yourself in a professional manor for what is arguably one of the most important positions in a community you are free to feel that way. If that's the way you present yourself then you probably won't be taken seriously by most churches that you inquire about, much like many of the men who sent us resumes.

    It is a professional position that should be treated as such by both parties.
     
  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Amen! Part of every pastor's responsibilities is to have a Timothy he is teaching how to be a good pastor.

    Every pastor, if the church is large enough to support him, should have a man on staff who he is preparing to take over the pastorate when the pastor retires or plans to move on.

    This is not always possible in the event of a sudden death of the pastor or some other unforeseen circumstance.

    And when a church in the area experiences a sudden unforeseen circumstance, that pastor should be prepared to offer that young trainee, if ready, to the church without a pastor. He should then be prepared to start the discipling process all over again with another young man.

    This nonsense of a pastor leaving and a pulpit committee taking a year, or even more, to find a suitable pastor is just idiotic, and says more about the church's failure to prepare for a transition of leadership than it does those available for service.

    Paul had his Timothy. Barnabas had his John Mark. Moses had his Joshua. All were ready, able, and available to take over the ministry is necessary.

    And we should do no less. I pastored the same church for 27 years. The present pastor was with me for 15 years and when I retired he stepped into the senior pastor's position with no trouble at all. He knew the people and the people knew him. :)
     
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  8. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    This is the problem most pulpit committees have. They think the pastorate is a "professional" position. It isn't. It's a calling. Today too many churches have forgotten that true Christian ministry is much different from the world of business.

    They seek professionals rather than pastors (shepherds).

    They emphasize programs rather than focusing on people.

    They look for the popular rather than the powerful.

    We need to reexamine our priorities and practices and get them back into biblical perspective.
     
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  9. Johnf

    Johnf Member
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    A pastor's position should be treated with the utmost respect. Someone who is unable or unwilling to treat their position with that respect shouldn't be in it. Do you think God would want you to do anything but your very best? If that's not a professional position I don't know what is. A pastor should be one of the most respected men in the community how he conducts himself in the community, in the pulpit and with simple things like paying the water bill on time. All of those reflect on him, the church and all of Christianity in the community.

    Is searching for the best man to lead a church somehow unbiblical?
     
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    If you are looking for a professional rather than a pastor, yes.
     
  11. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Brother, i believe what people are finding fault with is the ubber concern for secular issues in the OP. No one is saying what you addressed doesn't have its place, but the letter and the statements that follow seem to be less concerned with spiritual matters.
     
  12. Johnf

    Johnf Member
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    Our church did have a man in that position. Unfortunately when the pastor left, he also followed suit and is now in the pulpit of another church about 70 miles away. We actually lost our Pastor, associate/youth pastor and music minster all in a 3 month span. The music minster was the pastor's brother and was retirement age, and their apparently was bad blood between the youth pastor, who had a PHD in theology, and the head of the deacons over something that happen 20 years ago. He was forced out. It was not a biblical decision. We have only three full time positions on staff now, our children's leader, who is a woman, the secretary and custodial staff.
     
  13. Johnf

    Johnf Member
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    They seem to miss the point that it was also just the first step in a 10 month process. I still don't see the point in limiting the amount of resumes you receive. The amount of prayer time in the process from day one has been astronomical. It's really pretty simple. The things I outlined help you get more easily into the process. How hard is it to understand that if you present yourself poorly, then you won't be taken seriously?
     
  14. Johnf

    Johnf Member
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    We were looking for a knowledgeable pastor who can conduct himself professionally and be a leader for our church and community. I will not apologies for that.
     
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    From my Philosophy of Ministry, from which I taught from in the Seminary.

    III. We Must Have a Pastor Who is Godly in Character, and Biblical in Function:

    A. The Pastor must meet and uphold all the Biblical qualifications of the office.
    I Timothy 3:1 7; Titus 1:6 9.

    1. Be of Good Behavior. 1 Tim. 3:2; Titus 1:8.

    2. Be in Control at Home. 1 Tim. 3:2; 4:5; Titus 1:6.

    3. Be Hospitable. 1 Tim. 3:2; Titus 1:8; 1 Peter 4:9.

    4. Be a Teacher. 1 Tim. 3:2; Titus 1:9.

    5. Be Committed to Holiness. 2 Cor. 7:1.

    6. Be Spiritually Minded, not Materially Minded. 1 John 2:15; 1 Tim. 3:3; Titus 1:7; 1 Peter 5:2; (read Matt. 6:19 34).

    7. Be a Man of Meekness. 1 Tim. 3:3 4; Titus 1:7 13.

    8. Be a Man of Maturity. 1 Tim. 3:6; 1 Peter 5:5.

    9. Be a Respected Citizen. 1 Tim. 3:7.

    B. The Pastor must be a man of prayer Acts 6:4.

    C. The Pastor must be a man of the Word Acts 6:4.

    D. The Pastor's ministry is to be one of leading, not driving the flock I Peter 5:1 3.

    E. The Pastor must be willing to spend time with his people Proverbs 27:17; Mark 3:14.

    F. The Pastor is to be constantly equipping the members for the work of the ministry. Members must be given training and encouragement to minister Ephesians 4:11 12.

    G. The Pastor must be Called of God to the work of the Ministry. 1 Tim. 1:12.

    1. A Divine Summons. Gal. 1:15 16.

    2. A Selective Summons. Mark 3:13.

    3. A Personal Summons. Matt. 4:18 22.

    4. A Deliberate Response. Isa. 6:8.

    5. A Decisive Commitment. Matt. 4:19, 21; 9:9.

    H. The pastor must be ethical.

    Concerning what he called the outer life of the pastor, Hezekiah Harvey wrote in 1879: "The Scriptures require in the pastor a model life. He is to be "an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity" (1 Timothy 4:12). As the leader of the flock his outward life will be expected to evince a higher moral tone and furnish more marked exemplification of Christian principles than that of the private Christian, because his office constitutes him an example, and the prominence of his position renders defects in him especially conspicuous and hurtful. (1 Timothy 3:2: "a bishop then must be blameless....")"

    For some time I have been increasingly troubled with the behavior of pastors. An absence of ethical standards is epidemic. Pastor's gossip and talk in an uninhibited fashion. They often do not present a spiritual image in their business affairs. This presentation is an effort to outline some of the ethical duties of a pastor.

    If the need for Pastoral Ethics is apparent toward the family of faith, it is eminently more vital toward those who are not saved.

    Colossians 4:5, 6 "Walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time. Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man."

    Webster defines ethics as follows:

    (1) The doctrines of morality or social manners; the science of moral philosophy, which teaches men their duty and the reasons of it.

    (2) A system of moral principles; a system of rules for regulating the actions and manners of men in society.

    1. A pastor and his relationship to other pastors;

    a. He has a duty to be Loyal.

    1 Timothy 5:19 "Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses."

    I believe that pastors have an obligation not to receive an accusation where there is an absence of evidence. It is not uncommon for a pastor to tell of the fall of another to those who do not need the information.

    b. He has a duty to be kind.

    Romans 12:10 "Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honor preferring one another;"

    c. He has a duty to be prayerful.

    Colossians 1:9 "For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;"

    d. He has a duty to be responsive.

    Colossians 4:6 "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man."

    1) Return phone calls in a timely fashion.

    2) Respond to mail in a timely fashion.

    2. A pastor and his relationship to members of other churches.

    a. He has a duty to be protective of the other church.
     
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  16. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Philosophy of Ministry, Continued

    1) What is your response to people who visit your church from another Baptist church of like faith and practice in your area? It is my impression that many pastors behave almost "lustfully" toward other church members who visit. They zealously court their further attendance and even solicit their transfer of membership to their church. Many seem to feel that they can do a better job of ministering to the family than their own pastor has done (this is pure PRIDE!). Perhaps they feel that the visiting family is going to join somewhere, "so it might as well be here." Perhaps it is the tithe they covet?

    "We do not regard it to be soul winning to steal members out of churches already established, and train them to utter our peculiar Shibboleth: we aim rather at bringing souls to Christ than at making converts to our synagogue. There are sheep stealers abroad, concerning whom I will say nothing except that they are not "brethren", or at least, they do not act in a brotherly fashion. To their own Master they must stand or fall. We count it utter meanness to build up our own house with the ruins of our neighbors’ mansions; we infinitely prefer to quarry for ourselves." (“The Soul Winner” by Charles Haddon Spurgeon, Chapter 1, page 1)

    2) Some Guidelines for response to visiting families from other churches of like faith:

    a) Call the pastor on Monday morning after their visit on Sunday. This provides him with a chance to "mend the fence." Very likely he will not even know they are unhappy.

    b) Pledge to the pastor that you will not visit the family.

    c) Refuse (that is the word I mean!) to receive them into your membership until they have

    (1) met with their pastor,

    (2) made a considered attempt at reconciliation, and

    (3) You have a sincere blessing from their pastor!

    d) This is the only Biblical way to receive these people, based on 1 Corinthians 12:18: "But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him."

    b. He has a duty to act professional.

    1) Having fellowship with your friends when they preach for neighboring churches.

    2) Having fellowship with members when acting in the capacity of a guest.

    3. A pastor and his relationship to members of his own flock.

    a. He has a duty to be their shepherd.

    When Dr. George W. Truett was invited to be president of Baylor University, he declined with one of the most beautiful sentences I have ever heard. He said, 'No, I cannot come, for I have sought and found the shepherd’s heart.'

    W. A. Criswell defines the ministry of shepherd in this outline fashion:

    1. The Pastor possesses the ministry of comfort.
    2. The Pastor possesses the ministry of encouragement.
    3. The Pastor possesses the ministry of joy.
    4. The Pastor possesses the ministry of feeding and nurturing.
    5. The Pastor possesses the ministry of loving commendation.

    b. He has a duty to be circumspect and discrete.

    "A ministers associations, or special intimacies should not be with bad or loose or irreligious men; the taint will necessarily tarnish and injure his own reputation, even if it does not corrupt his character. He is to be 'a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate.' (Titus 1:8)."

    "The pastor's relations with the other sex should not only always be pure in fact, but should also be such as to avoid even the possibility of misconstruction. No point needs to be more carefully guarded, for even the suspicion or thought of wrong in this, however ill grounded, is commonly fatal to usefulness, and often follows him through the remainder of life." (Harvey)

    c. He has a duty to be their confidant.

    Another very important area is confidentiality. No church member wants to hear his story in a sermon illustration, no matter how well concealed. No one will trust you if they cannot be certain that what you receive in confidence will remain confidential.

    4. A Pastor and his relationship to professionals in his community.

    a. He has a duty to perform the role of a pastor.

    1. Punctuality.

    2. Seriousness.

    3. Competence.

    "In conversation he should be genial, courteous, affable, avoiding that tone and manner of condescension which carries in it an implied sense of superiority, and exhibiting that breadth of intelligence and culture which will secure respect for his views in general society. Slang phrases, vulgar anecdotes, boisterous discussions, idle gossip, and scandal...ill become a pastor, and will in the end seriously militate against his usefulness. ...Attractive social qualities, such as enable the pastor to exercise a leading and governing power in society, are to be the most earnestly sought; their effect on pastoral usefulness can hardly be overstated." (Harvey)

    5. A Pastor and his relationship to the unsaved in his community.

    a. He has a duty to be honest. 1 Thessalonians 4:12, "That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing."

    b. He has a duty to be compassionate. Matthew 9:36 "But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd."

    Question: Can a pastor who has fallen into the sin of adultery be restored?

    To Fellowship, yes. 1 John 1:9

    To Leadership, no. 1 Tim. 3:2,7 -cf- Prov.6:32-33

    In summary, the pastor's work is as follows: Pray, Prepare, Preach, Protect, Preserve, and Perfect the Flock. The pastor's final task will be to Present the church, the Bride of Christ, faultless, a chaste virgin, to the Bridegroom, the Lord Jesus Christ, at the Marriage Feast of the Lamb.
     
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  17. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    I understand your concern and i'm not saying it's not an important one. But the reality is a Pastor/Shepherd may not be the "professional type", getting dirty with the Sheep doesn't require one to be so. The Calling will out weigh any idiosyncrasies if the church desires the Lord's will to be done and the Future pastor desires the same.
     
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  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    It is obvious you have failed to understand my point.
     
  19. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    What is wrong with being spiritual AND professional!?
     
  20. Johnf

    Johnf Member
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    I'm looking at this post like I do the commandments of Christ. Love the Lord God with...... Love your neighbor and then the great commission. If we love God we will do everything else the bible tells us to and avoid the things we shouldn't. If we love our neighbors, we will do all the things we should and refrain from those we shouldn't.

    Everything that you said can be summed up into the two things I said.
     
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