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a list of threats

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by massdak, Jun 12, 2003.

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  1. Charlotte Marcel

    Charlotte Marcel New Member

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    I did dear. That is why I'm having a problem with what you are saying.
     
    #41 Charlotte Marcel, Jun 12, 2003
  2. massdak

    massdak Active Member
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    do a search in the Christian news archives you will see interviews and quotes from mother t. mother t was a humanitarian who embraced a false gospel of the catholic church and other beliefs.
    The way of salvation is through Christ and Christ alone. mother t differed from this biblical gospel
     
    #42 massdak, Jun 12, 2003
  3. Susan WNY

    Susan WNY New Member

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    Still curious about #1 on your list. Where is the error in Graham's doctrine?
     
    #43 Susan WNY, Jun 12, 2003
  4. Mike McK

    Mike McK New Member

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    And faith without works is what?
     
    #44 Mike McK, Jun 12, 2003
  5. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    If one must be born again to love God, and Mother T loved God, then what were you saying? [​IMG]

    I agree. I never said otherwise. He also wants good works.

    Massdak, correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume you believe that salvation is by grace through faith in Christ. If Mother T had faith in Christ, would later errors in doctrine *negate* God's grace? Do *you* have "perfect" doctrine? I'm pretty sure I'm fallible, and I'm sure glad my salvation is hinging on God's grace, not on my own ability to score 100% on a doctrinal exam. Perhaps you have a different opinion?
     
    #45 BrianT, Jun 12, 2003
  6. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Key issue here is a person's repentance from sin and faith toward God in the finished work of Christ.

    I have known people who were steeped in the trappings of a false religion but were, by all accounts, truly regenerate.

    I will leave the decision-making up to the Judge of all the earth (who will, after all, do right). And I've seen some unsaved people who acted like good upright moral christians but were still clinging to false doctrines.
     
    #46 Dr. Bob, Jun 12, 2003
  7. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    You've got it all wrong. It works like this:

    If she accepted Christ as her savior, THEN she's saved.

    I've posted a quote from her which testifies to her doing just that. End of story. Period.
     
    #47 Johnv, Jun 13, 2003
  8. massdak

    massdak Active Member
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    You've got it all wrong. It works like this:

    If she accepted Christ as her savior, THEN she's saved.

    I've posted a quote from her which testifies to her doing just that. End of story. Period.     </font>[/QUOTE]NO YOU HAVE GOT IT WRONG it is not your way but the way the BIBLE says and you cannot mix grace and law as did mother t.
    "wake up" you have been told the truth, it is not a mix of religious acts plus Jesus, it is faith in Christ alone get it. your quote is not complete, do a better search most true Christians know that mother t was a catholic and their religion does not preach the gospel.
     
    #48 massdak, Jun 13, 2003
  9. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Despite the trappings of Romanism, the gospel has prevailed and does prevail. Conversion is an individual matter and not an institutional event. Who is to say that the individual Catholic has not come to the Lord Jesus in personal faith and conversion? I know of quite a few.

    I used to hear this nonsense about Anglicans as well, but from personal experience, I know better. I came to the Lord Jesus in the Anglican Church, and I have never doubted my conversion.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #49 Jim1999, Jun 13, 2003
  10. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    Perhaps you missed the question I posed earlier. If someone is saved by grace, does later following law *negate* that grace? Is having a perfect understanding a requirement of *preserving* that grace - does God take away his grace if we make a mistake in doctrine?
     
    #50 BrianT, Jun 13, 2003
  11. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    NO YOU HAVE GOT IT WRONG... it is not a mix of religious acts plus Jesus, it is faith in Christ alone get it.

    Hmmm.... so if accept Christ, and as a result do good works, and am a Baptist, I'm saved. But if if accept Christ, and as a result do good works, and am a Catholic, I'm not??
     
    #51 Johnv, Jun 13, 2003
  12. RomOne16

    RomOne16 New Member

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    Excellent point Brian! I agree with your thinking.

    It's a very dangerous thing for any denomination to believe they have the corner on the market where salvation is concerned.

    I don't believe that Mother Theresa did all that she did through her flesh. I believe the Holy Spirit did all of those things through her, for the glory of God.

    Laura [​IMG]
     
    #52 RomOne16, Jun 13, 2003
  13. massdak

    massdak Active Member
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    let me try to make this clear for the more liberal posters on this board. but first dont take my word but read what the Bible states as mixing law and grace. i believe the bible says that if a person has saving faith then they will not have a fleeting faith in one doctrine, only to be settled in a different doctrine but will solely trust in Christ only for their salvation. but if they have believed in vain then they would most likely mix law and grace or other merit in conjunction and the consequence is as paul says. i have my strong suspicion due to mother ts doctrine that she believed in another gospel one that resembled the gospel that the catholic religion gives and also gives anathemas for faith alone. now if you do not have an understanding of the great threat of the catholic catechisms then do read them and then you can either be willingly ignorant or not.
    now mother t was a rebel even in her own religion for she included hindu gods and buddist gods as ways to get to heaven.

    Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

    Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
     
    #53 massdak, Jun 13, 2003
  14. Haruo

    Haruo New Member

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    Thank goodness most Christians realize that just because they're saved, that's no reason to cut back in the good works department. massdak, do you realize you'll have to answer for all the time you spend typing diatribes like this thread is full of when you might have been ministering to Christ's poor? yes, your faith will keep you out of the lake of fire, but no, it won't keep you from being vastly embarrassed and from realizing how far your repentance had partaken of hamartia. (And no, I'm not judging, just guessing. But it looks to me like something along these lines is a necessary part of any just soteriology.)

    Haruo
     
    #54 Haruo, Jun 13, 2003
  15. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    massdak, maybe you don't understand Catholicism. They do not teach that men are "justified by the law". They teach that men are saved by grace, justified by faith *plus* works, not just works as you seem to be saying they do. So I'm still waiting for an answer to my question - if someone is saved by grace, does God take away that grace if they later make a mistake in doctrine?

    James 2:24 says "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." Catholics read that, and for some very strange reason that defies all the rules of grammar and interpretation, understand it to mean that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. But suppose you are right - again, if someone loves God and is saved, does God later take away his grace and thus their salvation if that person thinks they are justified by faith *and* works, and not by faith only? A simple 'yes' or 'no' is all that's required. [​IMG]
     
    #55 BrianT, Jun 13, 2003
  16. massdak

    massdak Active Member
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    massdak, maybe you don't understand Catholicism. They do not teach that men are "justified by the law". They teach that men are saved by grace, justified by faith *plus* works, not just works as you seem to be saying they do. So I'm still waiting for an answer to my question - if someone is saved by grace, does God take away that grace if they later make a mistake in doctrine?

    James 2:24 says "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." Catholics read that, and for some very strange reason that defies all the rules of grammar and interpretation, understand it to mean that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. But suppose you are right - again, if someone loves God and is saved, does God later take away his grace and thus their salvation if that person thinks they are justified by faith *and* works, and not by faith only? A simple 'yes' or 'no' is all that's required. [​IMG]     </font>[/QUOTE]It is the Scripture's declaration that salvation is by grace through faith alone and apart from works, or it is not grace or salvation at all.

    Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

    read gal 5 and see if liberty in Christ is what prevails or if not. works will be evident in saving faith but make no mistake the catholic religion teaches none of this. was mother t a follower of her own religion? what does the documentation tell you about her beliefs? do you believe a person can believe in salvation as partly a duty and still be saved? these are important questions for you liberals to ask yourself. as dirty harry would say well do you punk (just kidding)
     
    #56 massdak, Jun 13, 2003
  17. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    Ah, I see. Mother T maybe ignores Rom 3:28 in favor of James 2:24, and you go vice versa, and therefore you are saved and she isn't.


    Yes absolutely, because I believe that if someone is saved by grace, having a perfect understanding of doctrine is not a requirement to maintain that grace. I take it that by asking that question, your answer to my previous question (which you still haven't answered with a simple 'yes' or 'no') is "yes, human fallibilities resulting in faulty understanding of doctrine negates God's grace. God's grace is weaker than our misunderstandings". If this is *not* what you're saying, simply answer my question.

    [​IMG]
     
    #57 BrianT, Jun 13, 2003
  18. massdak

    massdak Active Member
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    Ah, I see. Mother T maybe ignores Rom 3:28 in favor of James 2:24, and you go vice versa, and therefore you are saved and she isn't.


    Yes absolutely, because I believe that if someone is saved by grace, having a perfect understanding of doctrine is not a requirement to maintain that grace. I take it that by asking that question, your answer to my previous question (which you still haven't answered with a simple 'yes' or 'no') is "yes, human fallibilities resulting in faulty understanding of doctrine negates God's grace. God's grace is weaker than our misunderstandings". If this is *not* what you're saying, simply answer my question.

    [​IMG]     </font>[/QUOTE]here we go again, read what paul says grace and works added together for salvation gets you. take the gospel and what paul says in the new testament to proof read james, not vice versa. Get an understanding of what saves and what the Gospel says and who the object of faith goes to (Jesus) only.
    mother t is now gone and she cannot call back her belief system. rain in on your belief system now while you can, pray that God gives you ears to hear and eyes to see. Ask God to open your heart like he did for lydia the seller of purple.
     
    #58 massdak, Jun 13, 2003
  19. Istherenotacause

    Istherenotacause New Member

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    are you looking for honor? well as per list

    billy graham jerry falwell, robertson are involved in the ecumenism and embracing charismatic and catholic beliefs. other errors involve altar calls and other errors. gothard has many wacko and extrabiblcal demands and legalism. bill clinton, well, you know his story. and as far as you, even jerry falwell and many on my list would know that mother t was not even a Christian.     </font>[/QUOTE]You mean even the LORD God Himself should be on your list because He made altar calls too?!?

    Bill Gothard isn't "Local Church" But I have yet to see where he is unbiblical in any other area. I don't like the fact he calls himself KJB Fundamental but quotes the nkjv.

    I do believe your problem with Gothard is more, he's the straighter stick and yours is more bent.
     
    #59 Istherenotacause, Jun 13, 2003
  20. Pete

    Pete New Member

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    There seem to be a few posts on this thread putting "niceness" ahead of doctrine in the case of Mother Teresa...I hope I am just mis-reading intentions [​IMG]

    Doctrine IS important, 1 Timothy 4:16, Titus 1:9, Titus 2:1.

    Oh well, things are not too bad here on the BB, there have been no arguments about the inclusion of Benny Hinn on the list yet :D


    On the con side Mother Teresa: I think a lot of doubt can be raised over Mother Teresa due to quotes indicating seemingly universalist tendencies...

    Compare these statements with what the LORD God said and did about the false "gods" dagon, baal, asherah, molech...and their followers...


    On the pro side: Yes, I did read the quotes from her posted by others. Also as others have mentioned, she certainly was a busy little lady.

    I agree with Johnv on this comment and quote it with a bit of emphasis on the first word: "IF her works were the result of faith, she was definitely producing fruit, but orchards!!!"

    I pray her works were the fruit of faith, and that God will lead us all to "walk the talk" in greater ways to the glory of His Name.

    Pete
     
    #60 Pete, Jun 14, 2003
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