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A little help from fellow Soverign Grace advocates

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by IfbReformer, Jun 4, 2004.

  1. IfbReformer

    IfbReformer New Member

    Jun 24, 2002
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    I would consider myself 4 1/2 point Calvinist.

    The point I struggle with is limited atonement or particular redemption as it is often called.

    I have read Spurgeon, Calvin and man others on the subject. The reason I say I am 4 1/2 instead of just 4 is that I believe logically limited atonement makes sense if I believe the other 4 points to be Biblical(which I do).

    The problem is, I have never seen any scripture that suggests Christ died ONLY for his elect.

    If you could help me with Scriptures, not logical conclusions I would appreciate it.


  2. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

    Oct 20, 2002
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    Off the top of my head, I can't think of any verses that explicitly say Christ only died for the elect, although some verses could be interpreted to imply such a thing. On the other hand, the verses people use to say Christ died for all can often be "explained" as Christ dying not only for the Jews, but the Gentiles as well (meaning all kinds of men, not all men who ever lived, live or will live).

    Personally, without an explicit statement from scripture, I'm comfortable with leaving this question unanswered. I'm guessing that either Jesus died for the elect, or that Jesus' sacrifice is sufficient for all men who ever lived, live or will live, but it is only applied to the elect. The latter view fits with those who advocate free will, although we differ on why it is only applied to a subset of men.
  3. calvin4me

    calvin4me New Member

    May 24, 2004
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    I can relate to your problem. There are many passages in the Word that support both views.
    Some passages FOR limited atonement are:
    "Christ died for HIS people", and "A ransom for MANY" MANY, as opposed to ALL.

    The word "world" is used in many different ways in Scripture.
    I wish I has a solid answer for you, but wanted you to know that you are not alone in wrestling with this doctrine.
  4. Me2

    Me2 New Member

    Apr 16, 2002
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    1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

    if the enemy of Jesus has been defeated. what is stopping all men from escaping deaths power?

    nothing!. nothing stops them from being resurrected, but the timing of the father to raise them up to be judged innocent at the GWT.

    Jesus christ represented all men when he was sacrificed of his father. not some. not a few.. but all men... he was sacrificed for all sin.

    the only thing between these statements and reality is men learning the truth of what happened.
    and mankind cannot come to learn the truth until the father opens their eyes and ears.

    this is the reason why God the father is choosing some to be called today. they are being called to be teachers in the ages to come. even allowing some to be called (vessels of wrath) to be resistance of truth so that everyones choices are tested by faith.

    for this is Gods design of allowing man to become a part of the reconciliation of his creation to himself. some called and saved today in this age. and in the next the great harvest of Gods creation will be called and saved.

    so do you notice the message of the called to be vessels of wrath, and vessels of mercy?
    the vessels of mercy advocate all powers against Jesus defeated towards all men.
    proving his lordship.
    the vessels of wrath advocate that Jesus defeated some sin for some men..not all sin for all men.
    an imperfect sacrifice.