1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

A non-vote is a vote for...

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by NaasPreacher (C4K), Aug 28, 2012.

  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Ratings:
    +127
    We often see it claimed here that a non-vote is a vote for the president.

    However, if a person is leaning toward the president and does not vote is that a vote for Gov Romney?
     
    #1 NaasPreacher (C4K), Aug 28, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 28, 2012
  2. Bobby Hamilton

    Bobby Hamilton New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Messages:
    569
    Ratings:
    +0
    A non-vote is only a vote for the winner.

    If a person wins, you can't help them win anymore. So if that non-vote person was leaning one way (towards the winner) then it's not relevant.

    So ultimately a non vote can only benefit one person. The winner.

    So if you choose not to vote and Romney wins, then essentially you helped him get there by not voting against him. Same goes if Obama wins.
     
  3. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    17,636
    Ratings:
    +1,953
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Not sure.....

    If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?
     
  4. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    20,297
    Ratings:
    +35
    Of course it does.
     
  5. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Ratings:
    +182
    One of the myths of the US system is this notion that if I don't vote its just a vote for the other person. That isn't how our system works.

    This assumes that:
    1. There are only two parties
    2. That someone will vote in your place
    3. When it comes to electing a President it neglects how the Electoral College functions.

    In our federal constitutional republic all votes count, but some matter more than others. Right now if you live in Texas and you plan on voting Republican that isn't a consequential as someone living in, say, North Carolina. Since Texas will go Republican (by probably about 60-65%) a Republican vote isn't as important. This changes if one lives in North Carolina.

    Now I'll also point out that if there are 150 people who are registered and eligible to vote in an election and 50 of them decide to stay home and not vote it doesn't mean its a vote for the other guy. It simply means that the necessary votes to acheive a majority (50% + 1 vote) drops. In this scenario it would mean that there are simply less votes needed and not a vote for the other person. Now if all 150 people were to vote a winning candidate would need 76 votes to win. They still need the votes, simply choosing not to vote for candidate A or candidate B doesn't mean that the other candidate suddenly picks up the missing vote.

    Anyone who can't figure that one out needs remedial math and civics. When it comes to voting for the President one must remember how the Electoral College works. Without that knowledge you further compound ignorance...and that doens't help anyone.
     
  6. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    20,297
    Ratings:
    +35
    I accept the charge mentioned in tho O/P. The "a vote for anyone but Romney is a vote for Obama" charge means little to me, as I would rather see Obama with a GOP majority in congress, than Romney with one.

    And there will most certainly be a huge republican majority in the house, possibly the senate, and they will also make gains in the country-wide local elections.
     
  7. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Ratings:
    +182
    So the math makes no difference to you.
     
  8. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Ratings:
    +80
    Why??????????
     
  9. Aaron

    Aaron Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,867
    Ratings:
    +603
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yep. :thumbs:
     
  10. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Ratings:
    +586
    So why not just count the non-votes? And if they are greater than the votes received by either candidate, there must be a do-over. :laugh:

    There was over 100 million non-votes in 2008. Were they all for Obama? EEEK!!!
     
  11. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Ratings:
    +127
    Excellent post - clears up a lot of misperceptions.
     
  12. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    39,131
    Ratings:
    +2,360
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It is adumb argument with poor logic that ignores other factors. It assumes that a vote should only be for someone that wins. When in fact our votes are based on, and always have been, the idea that we vote for the candidate we find personally is best suited for the office.

    Every time someone makes that argument they show their ignorance of our voting system.

    I praise God Americans have the right to vote their conscience which is one of the foundational principles of this country.
     
    #12 Revmitchell, Aug 28, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 28, 2012
  13. Aaron

    Aaron Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,867
    Ratings:
    +603
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The saying is actually "Bad officials are elected by good citizens who do not vote." It's attributed to George Jean Nathan, and the saying is akin to the proverb, "All evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing."

    Both sayings have their roots in the Book of Proverbs, which says, "He also that is slothful in his work is brother to him that is a great waster," (waster meaning destroyer).
     
  14. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Ratings:
    +0
    Pot meet kettle.
     
  15. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Ratings:
    +0
    Everytime someone has used the argument (not exactly the same), that a vote for a third party is a vote for Obama, I counter it by saying that "no, it is a vote for a third party."
     
  16. Sapper Woody

    Sapper Woody Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    2,112
    Ratings:
    +292
    I still hold that a vote for a third party is a vote wasted, since the third party cannot win. Any vote for a third party is a vote not gotten by the lesser evil of the two main parties. A vote not gotten by an opponent is a vote gained, just like in sports; if you stop the other team from scoring 2 points, you've essentially gained 2 points.

    The math in the earlier post seemed sound, but was skewed. If you have 150 voters in an area, and roughly 50% of them are conservative, then you have a 75/75 split. If any of those conservative voters end up voting third party (or not voting at all, same effect), then the liberal vote wins.

    So, instead of voting for a man who they think would be good, they've actually wasted their vote, and given it to the person that they least want to win. (btw, the same goes for the conservative side. A vote for a third party is to vote for the person you'd least like to see to win.)

    Also, the assumption isn't that there are only two parties. The fact is that the other parties don't have the support to win, and so actually take away votes that could help the more conservative (or liberal, if you aren't close enough to God to be conservative (said tongue in cheek ... kind of)) of the two major parties win.

    I will agree that a conservative vote lost in a conservative area, and same for liberals, isn't a big deal. In fact, I vote conservative in Illinois, which generally votes liberal. (Another discussion, as most of the area in Illinois is conservative, but there are enough people in Chicago to sway the entire state's vote. And this is why I don't particualarly like the electoral college as it works now.) And since my conservative vote is going to be assuredly outvoted by liberals, my vote doesn't really matter. But, in the borderline areas/states, the statement rings true that a vote for a third party (or not voting) is a vote for the guy you'd least like to win.
     
  17. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    39,131
    Ratings:
    +2,360
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Case in point
     
  18. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Ratings:
    +0
    Plain English

    A vote for a third party is a vote for a third party.

    A vote for Romney is a vote for Romney.

    A vote for Obama is a vote for Obama.

    A person who stays home does not vote.

    Duh
     
  19. Sapper Woody

    Sapper Woody Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2011
    Messages:
    2,112
    Ratings:
    +292
    If you want to disagree, then do so intelligently. Don't take an entire post that I took the time to write and then dismiss it without any word of why. I looked at others' arguments and then posted why I disagree with them. At least be courteous enough to do the same to me.

    And now we've allowed ourselves to slip into shildish antics instead of discussion/debate. Again, I posted why I disagree. Either answer the post, or if you believe you have already, then remain silent and agree to disagree.
     
  20. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,051
    Ratings:
    +0
    A non-vote is a vote for apathy.
     
Loading...