Featured A pedophile among us

What about it Ann?

 

I wondered about this thread at first, but it might prove to be a great teaching tool.:thumbs:

 

One of the biggest lies ever foisted upon the Church, is the false notion that death is the sanctifier of sinning believers. Death is no sanctifier at all. It is the last enemy.

 

Huh? A person can be a CHRISTian and a pedophile simultaenously? Huh?

 

We can treat him as a brother in Christ, but that doesn't mean we trust the person with the care of our children. Probably the law demands that he stay away from children. Probably the church/camp insurance policy demands that background checks be made (ours does).

I can accept that a Madoff can be saved (I have no idea), but that doesn't mean I am going to make him the church treasurer or the chair of a fund raising group. Sins have consequences.

 

EW&F, I love you friend, but show some maturity. The church is Christ's body. If you allow bitterness to control you, this pervert will have not only destroyed those children and family, he will also have destroyed your spiritual walk.

 

The person who always tells the truth does not have to worry about what he said last. The person who lives that kind of life would not want to do anything that would tarnish that in his life. You forgot someone other than the preacher. What message is being sent to the children? Is the message that any sin is okay as long as the preacher did his time. He can never do enough time to pay for the wrong he has already done to the victims. In fact they are still paying. Why doesn't he go to the prisons or among those who are or have been criminals and do ministry there?

The children were not welcome so what message did they hear from the preacher? The church? "I am not welcome"? "I am not important?" What did Jesus teach about children and the mill stone?

Pastors and preachers are to meet certain qualifications and that is because they are teachers, and teachers are held to a higher standard. It has absolutely nothing to do with the modern image of a good orator as a preacher but godliness in action as an example to the flock. Does one have to put his hand in the fire to know it is hot? That particular orator failed to have wisdom (regarding sexual sin) and therefor failed as a pastor and preacher. Sexual sin is noted in scripture as not just typical sin.

Shouldn't churches have pastors who rise to the highest level in their example of godliness? Scripture says they are to be an example to the flock. How is a pedophile an example to the flock?

Sometime back I went to a bank in the city and asked to borrow some money to buy a home. The man I was talking to asked me how I came to the city. Then when he ran my credit report he told me that he had never seen anyone with a higher score. Imagine how he felt and how I felt when he told me that news. The next time I came in to borrow some money for another home, within 15 minutes I had a letter faxed to the realtor. I use a Christian realtor who has lived in the city for 55 years who has an outstanding reputation of honesty and integrity. I do that because I want to be associated with someone who is honest. The man at the bank is not a Christian, but he knows I am and he knows what I am like from a financial standpoint. A few weeks ago he told me about a way I could save money when borrowing. He was helping me financially.

I can certainly tell you from a pastor's point of view what it is like to have leaders in a church who have a bad reputation because of their actions in the community. Some I met would not come to church because of how they were wronged and others because of what they heard. Those kind of people bring condemnation on the church.

 

I am not talking about not needing a heavy dose of reality. Pastoring a church bring reality. I am talking about letting this pervert (and the naive, foolish people in this thread who would act as if his acts are not heinous and perverted) destroy how God wants to use you in a local church.

The church didn't do this. A perverted, unbeliever did. The group enabled him. The consequences ought to be harsh and to the full extent of the law for both the perpetrator and the group.

 

HP: You make no sense. If a man becomes a believer, he is accepted by God as a believer. It is those that hold to OSAS, like yourself, that hold the position that once accepted always accepted. Now you try to have it both ways. You tell us the change comes SUBSEQUENT to salvation, yet you contradict yourself when you say IF one does not change you would question whether he was indwelt with the Holy Spirit. If you are saved apart from change, what would it matter as far as your salvation is concerned whether you subsequently change or not? If you are saved as a sinner, why cannot you remain as a saved sinner? If you are save apart from change, why will God not keep you apart from change? Will He finally reject one that he has saved?

Ann, you have created a real problem with your understanding of whgat salvation entails, When you place all change subsequent to salvation, being born again and yet still the sinner you have always been, you have no more right to even think for a minute that God will ever reject anyone once born because they did not further change subsequent to salvation if you hold to OSAS. You need to take your notions of salvation back to the drawing board and develop a salvation that makes sense and is at least somewhat consistent.

 

Your point is taken in that most denominations claim that no sin is greater than any other as they all seperate us from God. Being a Pedeophile seperates as much as a white lie. However that being said Doesn't Jesus say

Personally, I believe some sins are worse than others and Pedeophile is up among the worst along with murder and probably above murder because of the verse I just quoted. I believe people who commit these acts have a mental disorder which cannot be cured and need to be not only seperated from the community but constant medical attention. They are seriously sick and cannot be in the same catagory with "average" sinners. Their place is with the serial killers, and the mentally insane. The only help for them is a miraculous healing Jesus casting out the demons in order to bring such a one back into the fold. Which can be done in God's power but once in the fold special care must be taken.

 

HP: Tom, if one does not repent for their known sins before they are saved, they will not be born again. You are right in that we should not lay hands on anyone quickly. Caution is always in order to see if one has sincerely repented of their sins and if one is to be trusted. Even then if one has been prone to some sin, it would be in keeping with repentance not to place oneself in any position of temptation to sin again. If one was a former pedophile, it would clear to me that is such a one was born again, they would voluntarily refrain from taking a position of a caretaker of children. This idea that Ann suggests that we are saved in our sins and then subsequent to salvation God begins His work in us, is simply not the case. If we have no change of heart towards our sin ANTECEDENT to salvation, as testified to by sincere repentance, no salvation takes place.

If we fall back prey to sin and refuse to walk in obedience, such a one has no solid hope of eternal life with God regardless of what one might think has happened to them in the past. One can indeed make shipwreck of the faith and be lost in the end.

 

HP: I certainly appreciate the spirit of your response.:thumbs:

God help us a believers to walk with a different testimony that that of a normal sinner. I cannot for a minute see why any pastor would ever desire the testimony they sin every day. That is so generic a sinners statement, that one could be steeped in any heinous sin and still have that testimony.

I desire a different testimony for myself as a believer and as a spiritual leader, just as you have illustrated you do as well. If we are not walking a life far removed from that which we did as unbelievers, i.e., sinning every day in thought word and deed, how can we say we love God? God help us to walk clean and pure, on the inside as well as on the outside, so that it can be said of us by God Himself, there walks a man that truly loves and obeys Me! God has no blinders on as to how we are walking, and everyone that takes the name of Christ aught to walk even as He walked.

God, help us to walk this day in love with you in holiness and uprightness of heart and life!

 

HP:

Now I understand what you are saying. You're still very wrong and naive. Start counseling those who have been the prey of people like this pervert. You will soon understand that it is the church's and, by the way, the leaders of the churches, responsibility to protect the flock God has given them. And this group did nothing to protect the children that were given to their care.