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A Question about Adam.....

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by TheBear, Jun 21, 2005.

  1. TheBear

    TheBear New Member

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    Was Adam created mortal or immortal?
     
  2. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member

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    Mortal, with perpetual access (prior to sin) to the tree of life
     
  3. mman

    mman New Member

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    I think that he was created mortal (that is his body was mortal). Of course, the spirit is immortal.

    Since he died, he was not immortal. Can something immortal be changed to something mortal. If so, then is it really immortal?

    I think the key starts in Gen 3:22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever--" 23therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. 24He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.

    As long as he had access to the tree of life, he would not die, however, when that access was removed, he could not live forever, therefore, he was created mortal.
     
  4. TheBear

    TheBear New Member

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    He had access to the tree of life, but he never once ate of it.

    Thank you for the input.
     
  5. ChurchBoy

    ChurchBoy New Member

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    Adam was born immortal, not mortal. God's original creation was perfect. Since it was perfect there was no death. Death didn't enter the world until Adam sinned agaisnt God.

    In Genesis 1:31-

    "God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day."

    When Eve is tempted by the serpent this is what she said, Genesis 2:2-3

    2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden,
    3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

    If Adam and Eve were not immortal then eating the fruit wouldn't really matter since they will die even if they didn't eat the fruit.

    God confronted Adam with this, Genesis 2:17-19

    To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
    "Cursed is the ground because of you;
    through painful toil you will eat of it
    all the days of your life.

    It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
    and you will eat the plants of the field.

    By the sweat of your brow
    you will eat your food
    until you return to the ground,
    since from it you were taken;
    for dust you are
    and to dust you will return."
     
  6. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
    but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”
    (Genesis 2:16,17 NAS)

    Does the death mentioned here mean a spiritual death or a physical death? (or both?)

    Rob
     
  7. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member

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    Consider this:

    Eating the forbidden fruit led to their removal from the garden. The garden contained the tree of life, which was the means through which they could live forever.

    Adam did not have to be inherently immortal to avoid death. Eternal life, for Adam, depended on being in good standing with God and having access to the tree of life. Once sin occurred, this access was revoked; therefore, death would come. This is why physical death did not immediately occur--the forbidden fruit did not cause physical death, removal from the tree of life did.
     
  8. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member

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    That is speculation. The text never says one way or the other.

    Gen 3:22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever--"
    Gen 3:23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken.
    Gen 3:24 He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.

    This says nothing of past action, only that it was imperative that he not eat of the tree of life in the future.

    He may have eaten of the tree of life, or he may not have. The text just doesn't say.
     
  9. TheBear

    TheBear New Member

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    Thank you all, for all the varied and insightfull input so far. [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Here's the dilema.

    If Adam was created mortal, then by the very definition, there was physical death before Adam sinned against God, (the Fall).

    On the other hand, if Adam was created immortal, then what would be the point, function or purpose of a tree of life?
     
  10. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Interesting question.

    Perhaps eating from the Tree of Life, as suggested by Stefan, or maybe being in the Garden, would have conferred immortality on him though he was mortal. Maybe he had a conditional immortality?

    I think the death that came through sin was both spiritual and physical. Decay and physical death was the physical part, and these did not exist before the Fall.
     
  11. TheBear

    TheBear New Member

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    Interesting question.

    Perhaps eating from the Tree of Life, as suggested by Stefan, or maybe being in the Garden, would have conferred immortality on him though he was mortal. Maybe he had a conditional immortality?

    I think the death that came through sin was both spiritual and physical. Decay and physical death was the physical part, and these did not exist before the Fall.
    </font>[/QUOTE]We are exhorted to search the scriptures daily, to see if these things are true, and to test everything we hear against what scripture does say.

    MMAN pointed out something I'd like us to take another look at. Genesis 3:22-24

    22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever--" 23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. 24 He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.

    To some, this is Essential Doctrine. Filling in the doctrinal blanks with a bunch of "maybes", shows an unsound doctrine. God is not the author of confusion.

    This is not speculation. This is sound reasoning. Our doctrine should be sound, consistent and backed by scripture. Otherwise, we could make up all kinds of doctrine that scripture is 'silent' on.
     
  12. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member

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    Not sure, but he's the only one still living while Ben, Hoss and Little Joe are all dead.
     
  13. Sularis

    Sularis New Member

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    He was born immortal - had no need of the tree of life - then sinned - thus mortal - then God made the comment - dang better not let Adam eat that tree or he'll live forever even in sinful state

    Immortal means living forever it doesnt necessarily mean unkillable.

    Just my two cents worth
     
  14. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Adam was created with the potential for eternal life.

    When he sinned, 'that very day' he died spiritually.

    The separatation from the tree of life meant that given time, he would die physically too.

    Rob
     
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Active Member

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    So very true.

    If only more people got that basic point in Genesis!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Active Member

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    That is an interesting defintion. Some people thnik that "immortal" means "unkillable even by God and the lake of fire/eternal fire/fiery hell"

    However - it does appear that access to the tree of life had something to do with living forever and the tree of life does not appear to have "changed to have that function only after the fall of man".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  17. TheBear

    TheBear New Member

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    Immortal means - exempt from death.
     
  18. TheBear

    TheBear New Member

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    (emphasis mine)


    This is interesting.

    Did Adam ever actually eat from the tree of life? If so, where does scripture indicate that he did? Having access to something, is not the same as actually using it.

    Go to the beach some time. You will invariably see some people who do not use sun block, and are burned. Even though they have access to sun block, if the don't use it, they will burn.
     
  19. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    I thought this was a discussion, not a test. :confused:

    Please don't imply that I don't study the scriptures or that I have unsound doctrine. I never heard that whether Adam is mortal or immortal is part of the essential doctrine of the church. And it's not.

    If you didn't want discussion and knew the answer, why did you post the question?
     
  20. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member

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    (emphasis mine)


    This is interesting.

    Did Adam ever actually eat from the tree of life? If so, where does scripture indicate that he did? Having access to something, is not the same as actually using it.

    Go to the beach some time. You will invariably see some people who do not use sun block, and are burned. Even though they have access to sun block, if the don't use it, they will burn.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Scripture says nothing either way. It does not say he did eat of it, nor does it say he didn't eat of it.

    Scripture does not record everything that occurs.
     
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