A question about Noah...

For the record, it's not my election philosophy, it's the eternal truth of Gods Word, so it's His truth, not my philosophy. Since they are elect, not if, they will most certainly come to the knowledge of salvation. None of His will be lost.

 

Now you are getting it. Based on your philosophy they WILL COME to the knowledge, but until they do they are not saved. They have to be born again. We are not saved at physical birth.

 

You're philosophy misses the truth here, thus unfortunately your philosophy is not "getting it", so I cannot lend you the same kudos. Close but not close enough, so you're in error here.

They are saved from the foundation of the world, they don't recognize such until said point.

 

Here is why the Lord warned about adding to scripture with a judgment for doing so as you have. it causes miss-information and false doctrine that you hold. The bible NEVER says anyone has been saved from the foundation of the world. Your philosophy is both wrong and sinful because you add to scripture. Salvation takes place at the new birth contrary to your claim. People are not saved prior to the new birth. Any suggestion contrary is heritical.

 

Where did I add to Scripture? Nowhere. I happen to believe all of it and embrace all of its truths. :thumbsup:

Your erroneous ideology has been dismantled. All He has chosen will come to Him. I know you struggle with this truth, but, you have to be right, all of your faith and hope rests soley upon whether you yourself are correct. That's scary right there.

You're incorrect, close, but no winner for you. Your continual turning away from passages that shred your system is shameful.

Heritical? What's that?

 

Trust, is a verb an action that comes from us not God, God does not need to trust in Himself we have to trust in Him. There is times where our faith is shaky, a little faith, but we are to continue to trust. The more the truth of God comes true, the more tested and proved the more we believe. The pivotal moment of Abraham to me is when his wife bore him a son, just as promised.

Faith without deed is a dead faith. We are all going to be tested with trials, we are going to fail in ourselves, but continue to trust in God as the message through these men of faith teaches it is a witness for us and we will persevere.

 

Then you need to embrace the new birth as the beginning of salvation, eternity past.

 

I embrace all of it in all of it's truth. So did Paul. You? Not so much.

You're getting closer, but you're still in error.

In your system you make pretense to holding a higher than most view of the Bible, yet, at the same time, you turn a blind eye to the truths contained therein. Therefore your view of the Word is not nearly as high and lofty as your pretense.

 

Depends on what you mean by "saved." If you mean born again, then that is not true. Just as there is a point in time before which Christ was not crucified, and after which He was, there is clearly a point in time that one was dead, and then made alive.

If you mean "safe," then it is true, but it's a moot point, because no man knows before he is born again whether or not he is of the elect.

 

No one is saved prior to the new birth. I accept that but you do not.
Talk about " blind eye and pretense" :laugh:

 

Let me ask. Is this verse not taken out of context?

Read the story.

In their heart the people desired a king like all the heathen (Gentiles) around them. That was their heart's desire. So God let them have a king. Saul a man after their heart. 1 Sam. 11:15 And all the people went to Gilgal; and there they made Saul king before the LORD in Gilgal;

Acts 13:21 And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years.

A man after their own heart, No?

Who did God choose after his own heart? David

It is called election.

 

And there is a reason why God never reproved him. It was because before they were born God had already chosen Jacob. Before either had done good or evil.
The elder shall serve the younger.

 

Yes and amen! :thumbsup:

 

God already knows who will believe and who will not. That does not cause any person to believe, and it does not prevent any person from believeing.

Why is this difficult to understand for you?

 

Post no. 35 in the thread, "What is a scriptural choice regarding Salvation"

which neither C's nor A"s will agree with, shows what saving faith is and when it begin and ended.

Show me from scripture where that post is not accurate.

Is it not strange that at the time God called Abram only Abram to our knowledge from God's word believed in the one God? How many people do you think lived at that time?

One more thing. Did God intend for Abram to bring Lot with him or do you think Abram did this in disobedience?

 

You are not making sense.
God did not reprove the actions of Jacob.
However God rebuked David, and David suffered severely for it. His family suffered most of all.
Was Peter chosen of God. Check Mat.4:19 where God chose him.
Now go to Galatians where "Paul withstood him to the face for he was to blame."
Great men of God sin. We have their records. Their sins are recorded. But in this one instance regarding Jacob he was not rebuked as you previously rebuked Jacob for, and as so many others fall into that same trap. Why are you changing your tune now? Because I have rebuked you (or rather Archangel, whom you agreed with)??

 

How do you know Abraham was the only man who believed in God? The scriptures do not say that. In Noah's story, we are told that, although his family also believed, who do you think helped him build the ark and gather supplies?

I think that it is safe to assume that Abraham took Lot into his household because Lot's father, Abraham's brother, had died. Nothing unusual about that. Abraham was Lot's uncle.

 

No it doesn't. Even scholars like Jamieson, Faucett and Brown will disagree with you on this point. You sound like you are making this up as you go along. Hebrews 11 says specifically that he left his own country. He left it by faith. In order to do so he had to have faith in God, that is he was saved.

1. Abraham had already obeyed God in Gen. 11 and in Gen.12.
2. If the incident in Genesis 12 is an indicator of Abraham's salvation then by the time we get to Genesis 20 Abraham is still not saved for he repeats the very same action with the King of Gerar. Your logic demonstrates you have a belief in sinless perfection. Are you sinless?

Have you not read the Scriptures? You do err not doing so.

But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife. But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation? Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this. (Genesis 20:3-5)

According to you Abraham is still not saved because he is a lying scoundrel. Yet, this is already after the time that he offered Isaac his only son as a sacrifice. You don't make sense.

Your presupposition, that God gives faith to unregenerate people comes from Calvin. He learned it from Augustine, not one of the ECF, but rather a Father of the RCC. In the totality of Scripture we see God uses those who put their faith and trust in Him.

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (Romans 4:3)

 

God doesn't give you faith. God calls you (elects) and gives you the Spirit of the promise The Holy which in turn makes you an heir, not an inheritor but an heir of the hope of eternal life.

The only regeneration anyone has is in that Spirit from the Father given through Jesus the Son by his faith and who has inherited the promises made to Abraham and his seed the Christ.

Abraham died not having received the promises.

His seed the Christ died and being resurrected received the promises of which we are joint heirs of with him.

Titus 3:6,7 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

 

What promises are you talking about?
Our discussion was centered around salvation. The Scriptures are very clear about Abraham's salvation:

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (Romans 4:3)