A Question Calvinists must Answer

Strawman. There are Calvinistic teachings going all the way back to the Apostle Paul. Writings of several Church Fathers teach pieces of Calvinism, even though not complete (Ireneaeus, Augustine).

Besides, the entire POINT of Calvinistic soteriology, is that we should simply trust what God has said, instead of making up reasons for this or that, or trying to explain them away. Answering your silly question would be undermining the system: God did it the way He did it, because He is God, and can do it anyway He darn well pleases. Who are you, little man, to answer back to God?

Aren't you a dispensationalist, Skandelon? Quite ironic...

 

The irony in a phrase like this coming from a calvinist.

HD, if not one of the numbers presented, what would you say another option is?

 

Skandelon within the reformed traditions was there not disagreement? Did Luther and Calvin agree on everything? I know a lot of Calvinist that don't agree on every little detail of Calvinism. It just seems you might be making a mountain out of mole hill. Maybe its because you have such difficulty with Calvinism or maybe you have just been wronged by some of them.

I am reminded of the relationship that George Whitfield and John Wesley had. Two men on different sides of the theological fence with love and respect for one another as brothers in Christ. Shouldn't you and I be able to do this as a Calvinist and Armenian?

 

Your interest seems to delight in phrasing orginating questions to your created threads that imply that those who believe in God's sovereignty are either ignorant of Scripture or believe principles that border on unbelief, never quite crossing that line. It is a technique that guarantees barbs and not an exchange of ideas. Comparing civility to weak agrumentation as you put it is not the question. The term weak argumentation is relative, which IMO characterizes most of your posts.

 

Im a horrible speller. Especially when I am typing quickly so I can get back to this bible study Im preparing for..lol. I think you just may have to come to grips with the reality that there may not be an good enough answer for you. Im mean can you tell me why one person agrees with your view and why one does not and answer it in a much deeper way then they simply made a choice? I would doubt it. By the way you have to be careful about drinking beer on here. You might get in trouble:laugh:

 

If Skandelon is wrong then he has painted himself there, we are only pointing out his errors,in most all of the posts.

 

Sure they can Webdog.Are you saying they cannot be saved?Only God sees the heart.
Like Roman Catholics they can be saved if they stop trying to save themselves by what they do, and trust in Jesus by a God given faith.

Many Arminians stop being Arminian when they pray.
They ask God if it be possible to save a family member, instead of saying God has already done all that he can, and now the person must do something to save himself.
So in prayer many Arminians do believe in the grace of God, even though in theological discussion they are riddled through with many unbiblical philosophies.
I believe Skandelons obsession with calvinists and calvinism is a cry for help,and if he remains with his theology as is...it will not be because answers where not given to him.:wavey:

 

:laugh: I thought you might like that. Do you work at a computer, that was a fast response?

 

I am not a five-point Calvinist for several reasons, so I know this is not really aimed at me, but I hate to see this sort of thing posited as a legitimate response to five-point Calvinism.

This rarely turns out well. There will be many more options that what you are likely to mention.

You seem to be insinuating that Calvinists believe one has to hold to their doctrinal viewpoint in order for one to receive the grace of God. I’ve know quite a few Calvinists in my day and I’ve never met a single one who believed that acceptable of the “Doctrines of Grace” were a necessity for receiving the grace of God. In fact, it would be contradictory to their system.

Calvinism does take a bit of careful thinking to comprehend, as well as a certain level of biblical knowledge, so there’s definitely an element to that. However, rejection of a doctrine may be based on many things (not just whether or not it is actually true), including not being ready to hear and comprehend a doctrine because one does not have the theological background or a certain set of life experiences, or not ever having the foundational questions regarding the administration of God’s grace (which Calvinism tries to answer) raised.

This could be true. Remember that the purpose of our life in Christ is not to develop doctrinal systems, it is to live for/with God and extend the reach and influence of the Kingdom of God until the Day when He will make all things new. We are created to enjoy God forever.

Now doctrinal systems are very useful and naturally develop as we struggle to live our lives in Christ, but they only need to be as complex as we happen to need for us to be obedient to Christ. I have known a large number of fine Christians (many who have left their earthly bodies behind) who couldn’t explain Calvinist or Arminian theology, or give a detailed explanation of atonement theory, but they lived their lives in God anyway.

I really don’t think God is all that interested in human theological systems, unless those systems put people into bondage.

As a teacher at my church, I don't load people up with knowledge that they don't need. I attempt to answer the most pressing needs of their lives with depth and clarity and create an atmosphere where they learn to teach themselves as well as feel comfortable asking questions regarding things they don't understand.

I focus on teaching through books of scripture very carefully, not skipping anything, letting the writer of the text present truth in their inspired way. I will make systematic connections to other passages and books of scripture, but I try to avoid the trap of teaching "systematic" Bible study where the students don't actually read any passage of scripture in the context of the entire book. It's too easy to proof text someone into bad theology.

In the same way, God may well only give people what they really need.

Probably because Calvinists believe that their belief system leads Christians to a clearer understanding of God and provides a framework for Christian discipleship (please note, we are not call to simply “evangelize”, we are called to make disciples).

And what’s wrong with that? They are exactly right!

You would do well to post less hostile and fairer “questions”.

 

Now you modify your blanket condemnation of those who are not Calvinists. Seems about right for you and your modus operandi!

 

Of course they can be saved, and praise God, many are! I was an atheist, and I am saved. I know multiple Muslims, and they are saved. I know several Hindus who are saved. But, they are not saved by their (false) theology. They are saved by Christ!

 

Are you the devil? You selectively parse my words to mean what you wish them to mean, then work to defeat the straw man you've made of me...

Good luck with that, by the way. Most on this board see through your tactics.

In any case, let's toss the "some day" and just say that Arminians can be saved, even if their THEOLOGY Is wrong. Because -- and I'll type this one letter at a time, v.e.r.y. s.l.o.w.l.y., so that you can get it -- JESUS CHRIST SAVES, NOT THEOLOGY.

Do you disagree with me?

 

No one has a perfect theology but Calvinist gave up on that and created there own using logic. Why if it's logical it must be right. Funny thing scientist used the same process to come up with evolution. Imagine that!
MB

 

Can a Muslim be saved and never know it? Can they continue to worship Muhammad? What an ignorant statement!