A Question Calvinists must Answer

A Muslim cannot be saved while they hold the doctrines of Islam, and a Hindu cannot be saved while holding the doctrines of Hinduism. Anybody who believes this does not understand the gospel whatsoever.

 

I beg your pardon? I won't speak for the others you mentioned -- but just why do you bring me up in this connection? I have done no such thing that you have accused me of. Now Mr.Snow,Winman and Amy, along with some others, have questioned the salvation of Calvinists in a number of posts.

 

I most certainly have not questioned anyone's salvation. You will have to prove it, and if you can I will gladly apologize.

 

I haven't read it all but the answer would be NONE OF TH ABOVE. Calvinism does not state that anybody who does not accept Calvinism as truth goes to Hell or is not part of the Elect. I know and respect several 5 point Calvinists and they do not condemn others for failing to believe. Believing in the elect is not a basis for salvation even if you are Calvinist. We both believe in the same basis of salvation, they just believe God has pre-ordained every person who will believe and if you believe God is an omniscient God then that is hard to argue against. I would say this that the premise of this thread and it's very beginning post is very judgmental towards the beliefs of Calvinism.

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Do not give it a second thought. I have seen many of your posts, and feel sure you would never say such a thing. Even though I strongly believe in God's sovereignty, the individual who accused you of this is one of those who post to see what he or she can start. It makes no difference to me which side they are on, they are there to cause trouble.

 

No, Salvation isn't about which doctrine you believe. Salvation is by grace through faith, not grace through faith and believing in (particular doctrine). I would never say that one that is an Arminian(or something in between) an unbeliever because he didn't agree with me on election...

No again. We interpret Scriptures differently. That's fine. We are allowed to do that. One of us is right and one is wrong.(or more than likely, both have right and wrong parts...)I of course believe I'm right, but that doesn't make me any smarter. There are a lot smarter more humble people that are Arminians.

No again. Just interpreting Scripture differently.

I have seen Calvinists question the Salvation of someone that disagrees. (not really here but on another forum). It's really sad when that happens. We have the Bible, but we come to different conclusions. That's fine. I'm a baptist and believe in individual soul liberty. We are to interpret the Bible the best we know how to. If we disagree, ok. We both love the same God, just have different interpretations over this issue. It's not a matter of salvation at all.

 

You have said that the Gospel says that Christ died for all men whereas Calvinism teaches that He died for some men. You then said that constitutes two different Gospels.

Since Calvinists believe that Christ did not die for each and every person who has and shall live you think we believe in a false Gospel. Of course your reasoning questions the salvation of Calvinists.

If you'd like to recant that would be nice.

 

My saying that was in response to the Cals that say Calvinism is the gospel. I was pointing out that if it is then it is a different gospel than that most of us believe. Most of us believe that the atonement was for all.
I did not mean to question anyone's salvation. My post was not directed at a person, but a statement. I do not believe Calvinism is the gospel. I believe the gospel of Jesus Christ is the gospel.

I do not question the salvation of Calvinists. I didn't mean for my post to be taken that way. I think you just like to pit people against each other. The way that you dredge up old posts and are continually pointing your finger at others is disturbing.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems here that you are somehow implying that perhaps only one theological flavor has a corner on the sovereignty of God issue.

 

I may get into trouble with my first post on here but oh well I must give an answer. As has been said none of the above are true. Calvinism isn't salvation. An Arminian isn't unsaved because he doesn't hold to the Doctrines of Grace( TULIP) he is unsaved because he doesn't know Christ as He is revealed in the Scriptures. The Lord defined what eternal life is, that is salvation, in John 17:3. He said it is knowing the only true God and Jesus Christ. Salvation isn't in having a theology that is correct or believing in a god that fits your imaginary musings. It is knowing Christ. I have know some very dead Calvinists as well. Sad to say many will not admit it but they do hold to superior grace rather than sovereign grace. There are only two things a person must know to be saved: who he is, sin, and who God is. If a person ever finds out who God is there will be no problem with knowing who he is.

 

You are taking a step or two backwards from your original statement.

Okay,so far.

You are not being definitive. Will you say point-blank that Calvinism is not a different gospel?

You had said since Calvinist don't believe that Christ died for all people and that the gospel says He died for all then the two are different gospels. And of course you know that Calvinists believe as they do about the extent of the atonement because of the witness of the Word of God.

I'll take that as a recantation.Thanks.

You had made your initial post about 40 days ago. That's rather recently. Besides if folks want to disown what they once held --why can't I produce their own words? I like to document. I don't lie.

 

I enjoy exchanges with you but your great debating weakness is "false dilemma". You do this repeatedly.

It's either _______ or _________. So which is it??!!??

This same "dilemma" can be turned upon you.

You Arminians- it's either 1,2, or 3.

Which is it?

 

Excellent contribution Robert.

 

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

Of course they can! What you are saying is that one MUST already BE a Christian in order to BECOME a Christian. That is simply a flaw in your thinking, and reflects a theology apart from the Scriptures, but ties in directly with your Pelagian views on the concept of sin and salvation.

BTW, I'm not holding Pelagianism over you like some sort of hammer. You have repeatedly argued for that position.

And, finally -- again -- JESUS CHRIST SAVES. Will you disagree with me?

 

Luke<

In more than one of the subsequent posts, Skandelon, emphasized that if you had a "different" answer, he would appreciate you to share it.

 

No one says that Calvinism is a false Gospel, it's a misrepresentation of the Gospel taught in the bible, that's all. Someone can believe it and still be saved, just like a Roman Catholic can hold to some of the teachings of their church and still be saved.

 

Winman would disagree with you.

 

That shows that Mr. Winman and I have independent thought, we aren't clones, like some Calvinists seem to be.

 

Robert, agreed! I dont see Calvinism as a proverbial "different gospel", but rather a distinctly different interpretation as to the methods, means and motivation of God with respect to redemptive history.