Featured A Rational Look at Baptism in the Scriptures of Truth

It is not an assumption, it is a fact that should not even be questioned by one reading the scriptures.

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No, because baptism is outward, not inward.

Water baptism in Jesus name after repentance is required for Israel to receive the Spirit that has just been given as the gift of God because the blood had been shed that can take away sins. This is a transition time from Law to promise as operative principles of divine dealing with national Israel goes. There are spiritual truths contained in this process that they must learn. God has always illustrated his spiritual truths through the physical and presented it as a likeness. That is what this baptism is all about. Baptism did not save anyone and for proof of that read Acts 8 where the whole town got baptized and believed the preacher who preached the gospel of Christ. Yet they did not received the Holy Ghost because the apostles hands had not been laid on them. There are two aspects of salvation. That is the lesson. Men must repent and believe the gospel and God who has sent his Spirit must give him to us. This is the picture.

This was not the rule for gentile believers to whom God gave the Spirit later in Acts 10 and was only temporary instruction for this great nation of Israel during the apostolic era.

 

Define "saved."

For Israel only, to whom the gospel was first preached in the beginning of this age,repentance and baptism was required by God as the condition for them to receive the Holy Ghost, which is salvation. Repentance and being baptized in water in Jesus name was not being saved, but it was the condition for being saved. It is flat out unbelief for someone to read a plain statement in the scriptures, the word of God, then spend the rest of ones life denying what is said.

Why not just believe the words that are written in the scriptures, even if you do not understand it now, and ask God to reveal this truth to your heart. He will honor this type of prayer. Water baptism in the name of Jesus was for Israel a transitional condition, belonging only to this one generation.

Paul was converted to Christ upon repenting in Acts 9. Afterward, he went to Damascus where Jesus said he would be told what to do. He had received the Holy Ghost from Jesus personally at his encounter without first being baptized in water, as all other believers had done since the cross. There is a reason for this in Paul's case. He was to become an apostle and all the apostles had been given the Spirit by Jesus Christ personally. One may read how Jesus Christ "breathed" the Holy Ghost (who is the life of God) into his apostles on the evening of his resurrection from the dead. This is revealed to us in John 20. Later, in Acts 1, when God poured out his Spirit from heaven on Israel, the apostles were instructed to be "filled" with the Holy Ghost. A man must first be given the Spirit before he can be filled with the Spirit. This filling is instruction to be completely yielded to the Spirit so he can accomplish his will through the believer.

With that in mind, read the biblical testimony of Paul as instructed through Ananias.

10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

Nothing about being baptized in water here, but watch this.

Acts 22:3 I am verily a man [which am] a Jew, born in Tarsus, [a city] in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, [and] taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.
5 As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.
6 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.
7 And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
11 And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt [there],
13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
14 And he said, The God of our fathers

1) hath chosen thee,
2) that thou shouldest know his will, and
3) see that Just One, and
4) shouldest hear the voice of his mouth15 For thou shalt
5) be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

(five is the number for grace and Paul is the preacher of grace)

16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

This scenario proves baptism is symbolic of cleansing. Paul already had the Holy Ghost abiding in his bodily person. He has been instructed, as he later instructs all Christians, to be filled with the Holy Ghost. This also proves that water baptism is not taught as a part of salvation.We know that God saves men without baptism. When gentiles begin to be saved in Acts 10, they are instructed by Paul to be saved "after" they receive the Holy Ghost. The symbolism is the same, cleansing, i e sanctification, but they are already saved because they have the Holy Ghost already abiding in their bodies.

 

When gentiles begin to be saved in Acts 10, they are instructed by Paul to be saved "after" they receive the Holy Ghost. The symbolism is the same, cleansing, i e sanctification, but they are already saved because they have the Holy Ghost already abiding in their bodies.
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A Correction.

The highlighted word, "saved" should have been the word "baptized" in my previous post.

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

 

I think you are right. You are saying the receiving the Spirit by faith and experiencing the new birth is salvation. This makes salvation a New testament doctrine that is dependent entirely on the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. No one before this event could have the Spirit in them as a permanent member of his person because "without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin." The OT believers could thank God for imputation because God imputed their faith in what he said to them for righteousness until the time their sins were remitted, he said, in Romans 4, and afterwards they could enter into his presences when the blood was applied, and they did. All the physical symbolism is consistent with the actual occurrence of God's actions. That is the intent.

All Israel, every one of them, were called to repent and be baptized in water, the symbol of national cleansing before the kingdom is established, yea, a requirement for the earthly kingdom of Jesus Christ, when the nation would be as one man collectively. There could be not one single Israelite left living when Jesus returns to establish his earthly kingdom. The gentiles, OTOH, being made partakers after Israel's refusal to enter the kingdom collectively, were invited to partake one at a time, even to this very day. Therefore, they were given the Holy Ghost upon believing from the heart and baptism was then performed.

This can and is actually proven from scripture but only to those people who will believe the words they read in the scriptures. Jews are considered as gentiles by Jehovah while they are out of their land and under gentile rule. They are dead (separated from God) nationally since 70 AD.

Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate,when he was determined to let him go.
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

 

No.

Jesus Christ is the baptizer with the Holy Ghost, not the baptizee. While he was baptized in water by John the Baptist, this baptism was a national baptism that introduced this man as the Messiah, the Christ, who had been prophesied to this nation. He was born into this people and as a man and a member of the collective family and he identified with them through water baptism. However, John the Baptist knew that the Holy Ghost baptism was different and would be accomplished through this Messiah. Following is what he said about him as he preached to Israel as preparation of his introduction.

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

Now I am blessed with the ability to reason and to use logic. I do not know if you have this kind of ability. I read what many of you fellows say and, to be honest with you, I must conclude that you do not have this ability. My logic drives me to understand from the words above that water baptism of the nation Israel only is taking place in the Jordan River, according to and in fulfillment of OT prophesies that were given to them years ago. I conclude that this is not a baptism with the Holy Ghost and it is not a baptism with fire. These two baptisms will be accomplished by the Messiah who is beginning his ministry with this water baptism.

Logic and experience tells me that a man who is baptized with water must find a pool of water that is deep enough and wide enough to be placed into it and be covered by it. I know that water does not have to go inside a person for him to be water baptized, and it does not. When one is water baptized he does not reduce the ability for someone else to be water baptized because he does not use up all the water. There is too much of it.

But the baptism with the Holy Ghost is not baptism with water and if I did not have something in the scriptures to tell me about this baptism happening then I would not know when or even if it had ever happened.

Now I know about water. It is plentiful on this earth and since the flood of Noah it has fallen down from the heavens at the will of God. When it comes in abundance it pools up and creates ponds, lakes, seas, and even oceans. It comes without cost and because it comes randomly and abundantly, everyone can take of it and drink and live. It is necessary for life and one must ingest it to live. It must be in him. Baptism does not put water in him but puts him in enough water that anyone could open their mouths and drink of it. Logic tells me that it is possible and probable that one can be baptized in water without ever drinking it and having the water inside of them.

This is the picture that this physical illustration of the work of God in salvation portrays. Don't miss it. God must indwell a person as a member of his person. This he does in the person of the omnipresent Spirit and his presence in us is eternal life because he is life. A person with the everlasting eternal Spirit in him cannot die. This is the same Spirit that was in Jesus Christ from his conception and was poured out of his body on the cross of Calvary when he died spiritually and later physically. This is the same death that Adam died. A man with the indwelling Spirit cannot die and God has no wrath for a man with the Spirit in him. Jesus Christ died as a sinner on that cross because we are all sinners and he died for each of us. He did not stay dead because death did not have any claims on him and God raised him from the dead and his omnipresent Spirit

John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Jn 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Jesus Christ has payed the sin debt for all humanity and then poured out his Spirit, first on Israel, through whom he has taught the whole world about himself and his work, and then later on all the world. He calls this a baptism with the Spirit, which simply means the Spirit of Christ has been poured out like rain on all the world in such abundance that all who are thirsty may drink him in and have eternal life in him. Whosoever will may come.

Re 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

There is a condition that God has given and it is repentance and faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ and his resurrection from the dead. This is the only way a man can receive life. This is the only condition that God has given in order for a man to receive eternal life, which is his Spirit. Any man who teaches any other way is deceived and is deceiving others.

I am not sure what blocks a man's mind when it comes to words written in the bible, but they should make perfect sense. Anyone should be able to read these words and determine who is being spoken to. Follow the logic. God has a purpose for Israel. One of those purposes is to make himself and his ways known. People reading this seems to be perplexed when someone points out that God deals with Israel as a foundation for all his revelation.

I have more to say about this water baptism and the later baptism with fire, as time goes on.

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Ten years later:

Acts 11:13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them (the gentiles) the like gift (the Holy Ghost) as he did unto us (the Jewish Christians), who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

If the gentiles had the baptism of the Spirit in Acts 2, ten years earlier, what is this all about when they just now began to receive the Spirit and get saved by doing so?

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us (man) abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Baptism is a picture of the Holy Ghost which must be drank.

 

Words are key. No one is said to be baptized "in" the Holy Ghost. They are baptized "with" the Holy Ghost. Again, baptism is outward whether it is with water, or with the Holy Ghost, or with fire.

Logically, I do not make comparisons if the comparisons are invalid. Jesus Christ is not at some point in time "immersed" into the Holy Ghost like you imply. The Spirit given by God without measure is a reference to our Lord Jesus having the Spirit in him from his conception. This is in the context of him becoming a man. Jesus Christ had a body from his birth. Inside that body dwelt the real person of Jesus Christ, his soul. All men have souls which gives them self consciousness and self identity and personality. The soul can exist outside the body because it is the spiritual part of man but the body cannot exist in any spiritual realm if it is in it's fallen state. Therefore the body, absent the soul, goes back to the dust from which it came. The body gives us world identity and kinship and allows us a family relationship. It affords us fellowship with others. Jesus Christ was born into a family. It was a Jewish family. He was fully man.

The Holy Ghost then is in Jesus Christ from his beginning as a man. We are clearly told it. The Spirit, we are told, and you quoted it in your comment above is given by the Father to the Son. Nothing at all about baptism or immersion in the Holy Ghost. If you follow my lead and read exactly what is said you will see that the text says that God "giveth" not the Spirit by measure unto him. This simply means the Spirit is given to Jesus Christ without measure. He has the Spirit indwelling him in his fullness. This cannot be said of any man that has ever lived to this time.

The scriptures says that we are given the Spirit to indwell us when we believe and are born again. However, it is not without measure. We have weak bodies and a war with the flesh because of it's weakness. We Christians are to reckon our bodies dead unto sin and alive unto God. We are to be filled with the Spirit for the service of God but we cannot remain filled as Jesus was. So, how does the Spirit indwell us? are we told? Can we know? The answer is yes. Consider these two texts and I will trust you to read the context.

1) an earnest
1a) money which in purchases is given as a pledge or downpayment that the full amount will subsequently be paid

2Co 1:21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

2Co 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing [is] God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore [we are] always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

The implication here, if we go no further, is that we will have the fullness of the Spirit after we are glorified at our resurrection when we will receive the new body.

The subject in these following verses is the bodies of believers.

Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be (future tense) revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. (the expectation is to be glorified in a new body)
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. (in a weak body)
23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body. (even we who have the earnest of the Spirit yet groan and travail in pain as do all the creation)
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

You see in verse 26 that the Spirit helps us in our infirmities but because of these bodies we will always have them. We hope for those new bodies where we will be free from infirmities.

This post is long and I have other things to say but will say them in a later post because of brevity. You must see what God said about the body of Jesus while it was in the tomb those three days.

Heb 10:4 For [it is] not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and [sacrifices] for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 ¶ Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure [therein]; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].

It is a marvelous and wonderful truth that the Spirit dwelt in Jesus in his fullness, and from his beginning as a man, enabling him to keep the whole law of God and to never sin. In that perfect state he was the only acceptable sacrifice that God would receive as payment for the sins of the world. Praise the wonderful name of Jesus Christ and thank you Lord Jesus for dying for me and rising from the dead in your glorified body.

 

Here is what is said:

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he (that cometh after me) shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

I am going with what is said. You have free will to do your own thing for now.