Featured A sacrifice-less salvation?

Daniel was never delivered from Babylon. He confesses his sins and the sins of his people in prayer in Dan 9 - without priest or sacrifice - praying directly to God.

Mose is raised by godly parents and has relatives that lived and died in Egypt without any sacrifices.

I am giving Bible text evidence - not foreign to scripture.

Heb 10 animal blood could "never" provide forgiveness of sins.

Heb 9 "without the shedding of blood no forgiveness of sins" is a reference to the blood of Christ - not animals.

God was using "Shadows" in the OT pointing to Christ -- the only one who could actually forgive sins.

Hence - even "flour" would do for the purpose of the "symbol".


Lev 5
11“ ‘If, however, they cannot afford two doves or two young pigeons, they are to bring as an offering for their sin a tenth of an ephahb of the finest flour for a sin offering. They must not put olive oil or incense on it, because it is a sin offering. 12They are to bring it to the priest, who shall take a handful of it as a memorialc portion and burn it on the altar on top of the food offerings presented to the Lord. It is a sin offering. 13In this way the priest will make atonement for them for any of these sins they have committed, and they will be forgiven. ’ ”

Ps 51
14Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.


Heb 10:4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

 

As noted Daniel never offers sacrifice for the prayer in Dan 9 - he dies in Babylon never having offered a single sin offering after captivity in Babylon. And Heb 10:4 makes it clear that animal blood was not actually doing anything.

And Lev 5 points out that "even flour" could be used for the purpose of the symbol.

So we are left with the obvious point that you also affirmed as "God sees all and is everywhere. He can see all of earth's time at once. Christ was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world..."

The Gal 1:6-9 "One Gospel" in all ages was available to OT saints and also to NT saints - being made available by the God of the Bible saying that "God so Loved the World" even before the cross - even in the OT age.

 

Agreed - it was all symbolic.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by convicted1 View Post
Flour...unleavened...was symbolic of Christ's fleshly body....

Yea, <symbolic> of Christ IN HIS SUFFERING OF DEATH.

The "bread" at the Last Supper and first "Lord's Supper" was leavened bread because it was <symbolic> of the RAISED UP, Anointed with Suffering Servant of the LORD.

Yea.

 

1 Cor 5 - Paul insists that the symbol of leaven at Passover is the symbol of "sin" - so it is removed.

 

No; not <<Paul insists>>; Bob Ryan insists.

Never in life and nowhere in the Scriptures told Paul anybody, <<<to keep the feast, with unleavened bread>>>.

Refer ....

Shirley:
“Whenever leaven is mentioned in the Bible (22 times in the Old Testament and 17 times in the New Testament), it always (or almost always) represents sin or evil. The first instance in which this word is used is found in (Ex 12:15).”
“Because leaven is equated with sin throughout the Bible, the "unleavened bread" pictured bread (Jesus) without sin in it.”

GE:
Shirley starts from an unfounded assertion; then attempts to ‘prove’ his assertion with instances of proof. His proof-text,“Ex 12:15” in no way suggests sin. In fact, it contradicts the meaning of the text because Exodus 12:15 tells the PEOPLE to remove all leaven. It doesn’t tell them to remove all their sins. What would they need the passover sacrifice for if they could have removed their sins with removing leaven from their houses?
Shirley starts from an unfounded assertion; then without any proof-case of relevance, claims he has proved “"unleavened bread" pictured bread (Jesus) without sin in it”.
The lamb for passover sacrifice had to be “without blemish” itself and typified Jesus without sin in Himself. Unleavened showed the death of the perfect lamb; leavened bread showed its LIFE.
And so with Jesus the Lamb of God who is called the “Bread of LIFE”—the sinless LEAVENED Bread of Life.

Shirley:
“… a "blood sacrifice" … was not to be offered with leavened bread (Ex 23:18)(Ex 34:25)…”

GE:
… which is wrong, opposite what is actually written.
Exodus 23:17,18,
“Ye shall bring two loaves … baken WITH LEAVEN … and ye shall offer WITH THE (LEAVENED) BREAD seven lambs… an offering unto the LORD of SWEET SAVOUR.”
Sin cannot be a sweet savour unto the LORD but leaven was.

Shirley:
“It is interesting to note, however, that for a peace offering (Lev 7:13) and wave offering (Lev 23:17) God commanded that leaven be used.”

GE:
Significantly, yes! Because Jesus’ LIFE brought on our peace. Again, it only confirms leaven in the Bible much rather signifies the SINLESS LIFE OF CHRIST TAKEN AWAY for an atonement for our sinful life.

Shirley:
“The key is that you only need to add a very small amount of fermented dough to make new dough rise.(Gal 5:9) describes this saying, "a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump."”

GE:
Yes; that’s the “key”. It’s not sin which is the key. Rather,
… the function of yeast or fermentation can be compared with the working of the Holy Spirit bringing the Light of Jesus into one’s life,
Ephesians 5:8-10 “For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord : walk as children of the light for the FRUIT OF LIGHT [SPIRIT] in all goodness and righteousness and truth proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.” A “very small amount” of Jesus’ Divine LIFE—like the yeast of life or the leaven of the Spirit—enlightens everything in all of God’s children.
There is NO justification for Shirley’s illegitimate application,“Carrying this out to sin, it can be said that "a little sin can wind up destroying the whole body."
Carrying the similitude of the leaven out to the Life of the Lord is the real and positive meaning which is to assure true believers. It must be said of JESUS who is our Righteousness, that "a little leaven” of HIS LIFE will fill and let “grow with the growth of God, the whole Body of Christ’s Own." Colossians 2:19.

Shirley,
“In the second instance, Jesus compared the false teaching (sin) of the Pharisees and Sadducees with leaven (Mt 16:6-12).
In the third, Jesus warned of the leaven of Herod (he was evil and immoral: Mt 4:1-12,Mk 6:14-29, Lk 3:18-21, Lk 23:7-12) and again the Pharisees (Mk 8:15).
In the fourth, Jesus said, "Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees which is hypocrisy" (sin)(Lk 12:1).”

GE:
Yes indeed when it is Jesus Himself who defines the leaven of the Pharisees as hypocrisy, who will protest?!
But where it is God who Himself instructs his children on the meaning of the leaven of the Bread-of-Life, who is going to define it as the leaven of the Pharisees which is hypocrisy?!

Shirley,
“In (1 Cor 5:8), Paul also gives us a great contrast between leavened (sin) and unleavened (sin free) bread, comparing leaven with "malice and wickedness" and unleavened bread with "sincerity and truth."

GE:
Shirley gives a faulty interpretation. The ‘key-word’, here, is not the word ‘leaven’, but the word “OLD, leaven—the leaven-OF-MALICE and wickedness”

Why does Shirley not quote the text fully?!
Because it is an old malady of expositors to rigidly sort words into categories of no exceptions,“almost always” to bolster some or other extremist ideology.
But let’s look closer at the words which Paul used. He ends verse 8 saying,“Let us feast … with REMOVING LEAVEN / UN-LEAVENING”—which ‘leaven’?
“Let us feast in / with / by (the) removing of sincerity and truth” of the “OLD leaven” and “leaven-of-MALICE-and-wickedne ss.”
“in / with / by (the) removing”—‘en’ Preposition plus DATIVE—Modal Dative / Dative of Means / Dative and Preposition of RELATION!
So here Paul actually supplies a VIVID SPIRITUAL Christian application of the passover-feast specifically wherein is CELEBRATED THE REMOVAL OF LEAVEN rather than the addition of leaven. Here only, Paul makes the feast one of the removing of the “OLD leaven” of the PEOPLE’S “malice and wickedness” and not of Jesus’ NEW LIFE that He had obtained “in / with / by REMOVING” THE LEAVEN OF HIS SINLESS LIFE.

Shirley:
Jesus said, "Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees which is hypocrisy" (sin)(Lk 12:1).”

GE:
When it is Jesus Himself who defines the leaven of the Pharisees as hypocrisy, the leaven of the Pharisees is, hypocrisy—and sin.
Hypocrisy is spiritual DEATH APPEARING to be Life.
But Jesus’ leaven IS, Righteousness and IS, LIFE—“life more abundantly!” Jesus’ leaven makes the leaven-less dough of our own lives LIVE and swell and rise and overflow our plate and cup of enjoyment in the Lord in the heat of affliction, trial and temptation.