Featured A Skopos Version of John 17

And you, as an unqualified translator have the effrontery to think that all the translators got it wrong, but you, with your supreme ability have hit it on the nose?

 

I see Mr. Rippon has returned to form and is offering ad homenims.

My view, that the context indicates the evil of the world is in view, is found is several commentaries, including John Calvin. True, the meaning is ambiguous, with the NASB footnoting evil in lieu of evil one. Personification of evil explains the masculine and allows the primary choice to be evil vice evil one. To conclude that evil in all its forms is not in view is nonsense.

 

Gee, the NASB translators that indicate the meaning could be "evil" just do not have a grasp of Greek 101. You have got to love them.

 

No JOJ, the footnotes are there because the reading is ambiguous, either evil or evil one is allowed by Greek grammar. Note that at Matthew 5:37, the NASB uses evil and footnotes evil one, whereas at John 17:15 the NASB uses evil one and footnotes evil.

Here is the NET footnote: The term πονηροῦ (ponhrou) may be understood as specific and personified, referring to the devil, or possibly as a general reference to evil. It is most likely personified, however, since it is articular (τοῦ πονηροῦ, tou ponhrou). Thus Dr. Wallace agrees with me that just because "the" is coupled with it, the construction suggests but does not require evil one. Here (Matthew 5:37) and at John 17:15 evil is a better fit considering the context.

 

A snip from NET notes reveals :"Every instance of this construction in Matthew is most likely personified, referring either to an evildoer (13:49) or, more often, 'the evil one' (as in 5:37;6:13;13:19,38)."

 

You have got to love them. They claimed their interpretation was required by Greek grammar, but now are saying well its most likely. In my two examples, which actually use the same Greek phrase, the translations differ. NASB, ESV, Darby, Webster's, YLT, and KJV all support my contextual choice, at Matthew 5:37.

So if we set the specious grammar argument aside, lets once again consider that John 17:15 is making a "general reference to evil" and specifically to the evil of the world.

Now they are free to choose a different translation option, but their effort to argue that my choice is not viable is without actual support.

 

But the following use evil one. :
NIV, NLT, HCSB, WEB, NET, GWT, ISV, LEB, NRSV, CEB, NABRE, EXB, among others. Your choice is considerably outnumbered.

Let's not.

 

John 17:

1. After Jesus spoke these words, and lifted up His vision into heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come, glorify your Son that your Son may glorify you.”
2. Even as you gave Him authority over all flesh that He will give eternal life to them you have given to Him.
3. Moreover, this is eternal life – that they would know the only true God and Jesus Christ, the One you sent.
4. I glorified you on earth by finishing the work you gave Me to do.
5. Now Father, glorify Me along side you with the glory I had with you before the world existed.
6. I revealed your name to the disciples you have given Me out of the world; they were yours, and you have given them to Me. They have carefully kept your word.
7. Now they know that everything you have given Me is from you.
8. Because I have given them the declarations you have given Me and they took hold of them and truly understand I came from you and believe you sent Me.
9. I ask for these disciples, and not for the world, but for these you have given Me, because they are your chosen ones.
10. Both all mine are yours and yours are mine and I have been glorified by them.
11. These are in the world, but I am no more in the world and am coming to you. Holy Father protect them by your name, which you have given Me, that they may be one just as we are one.
12. While I was with them in the world, I protected, by your name, those you had given me, and none of them perished, except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
13. But now, I am coming to you, and saying these things in the world, that they might have My joy fulfilled in themselves.
14. I have given them your word, but the world hates them because they are not like the world, just as I am not like the world.
15. I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you protect them from evil.
16. They are not like the world just as I am not like the world.
17. Set them apart in your Truth; your Word is Truth.
18. Just as you sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
19. I sanctify Myself for their sakes, because then they may be set apart in Truth. ​

 

"Lifted up his vision into heaven."
Boy, is that ever an awkward construction. If you do a search for that wording all that will be found is your rendering. It's about as common as "pulling off a target" --another one of your gems.

 

How about lifted up his view into heaven?

Once a translator is satisfied he/she has captured the actual message, then editorial markups are useful. However, concocting faults for the purpose of disparagement is somewhat useless.

 

so too He will give eternal life to those you have given Him.

​

 

No, it is awkward.

Try one of these.

He looked up to heaven
He raised his eyes to heaven
He looked toward heaven

 

No, I was asserting my translation choice was valid, i.e. consistent with the requirements of Greek grammar. Pardon my silly insistence on truth.

 

John 17:

1. After Jesus spoke these words, and lifted up His view into heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come, glorify your Son that your Son may glorify you.”
2. Just as you gave Him authority over all flesh so that He will give eternal life to those you have given to Him.
3. Moreover, this is eternal life – that they would know the only true God and Jesus Christ, the One you sent.
4. I glorified you on earth by finishing the work you gave Me to do.
5. Now Father, glorify Me along side you with the glory I had with you before the world existed.
6. I revealed your name to the disciples you have given Me out of the world; they were yours, and you have given them to Me. They have carefully kept your word.
7. Now they know that everything you have given Me is from you.
8. Because I have given them the declarations you have given Me and they took hold of them and truly understand I came from you and believe you sent Me.
9. I ask for these disciples, and not for the world, but for these you have given Me, because they are your chosen ones.
10. Both all mine are yours and yours are mine and I have been glorified by them.
11. These are in the world, but I am no more in the world and am coming to you. Holy Father protect them by your name, which you have given Me, that they may be one just as we are one.
12. While I was with them in the world, I protected, by your name, those you had given me, and none of them perished, except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
13. But now, I am coming to you, and saying these things in the world, that they might have My joy fulfilled in themselves.
14. I have given them your word, but the world hates them because they are not like the world, just as I am not like the world.
15. I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you protect them from evil.
16. They are not like the world just as I am not like the world.
17. Set them apart in your Truth; your Word is Truth.
18. Just as you sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
19. I sanctify Myself for their sakes, because then they may be set apart in Truth. ​

This update incorporates some of the valid editorial comments of Mr. Rippon.

 

I don't see where you made any adjustments.

You have still retained "lifted up his view" in verse 1 despite my suggestions.

In verse 5 you need to make 'along side' one word as I have said before.

In verse 8 "declarations" is awkward and unnecessary. Stick with the Word.

You didn't follow any of my suggestions for verses 14,15,16 and 19.

So I am left wondering what adjustments you made due to my advice.