A Theatre of God's Glory--Calvinism and Creation

A view of God that sees him often failing in his redeeming purposes and whose plan for his creatures is often thwarted by their wayward will?-- I don't think so.

 

Monergist,

God has not created robots for Himself. The Godhead has created human beings with a free-will [Revelation 20:17f] so when they truly turn to Christ because of the Spirit's movement on their lives, He truly has people who worship Him.

Human automitons programmed by holy God, do not offer true adoration to the Godhead.

 

I think all Christians would agree with the above statement; after all, the Bible says that creation shows there is a Creator God and the heavens declare the glory of God. What Christian is going to disagree with that?

 

God has not created robots for Himself. The Godhead has created human beings with a free-will [Revelation 20:17f] so when they truly turn to Christ because of the Spirit's movement on their lives, He truly has people who worship Him.

Human automitons programmed by holy God, do not offer true adoration to the Godhead. </font>[/QUOTE]There is no Revelation 20:17. What verse are you REALLY talking about?

 

Yes. It's known as the "Theatre of man's glory".

 

"Is there a model that shows the strength of the Arminian possition?"

I'm not Arminian; I'm non-Calvinist (Calvinist being in the way it is interpreted today), so I don't know. It was actually said by God since the Bible talks about how creation reflects the glory of God, so it's not really original with Calvin.

I get tired of the Calvinist attempt to make non-Calvinists look like they don't ascribe glory to God. The merry-go-round of the same ol' stuff in this forum is what got me to leave before and I'm close to leaving again.

 

Wisdom is justified of her children.

Believing in a Sovereign God, as I do, is it possible that the Arminian position will fail to glorify God in due season?

What did Christ say regarding this topic?

The Father glorifies His name.

The Father is glorified in the Son.

The Father is glorified in that ye bear much fruit

What did Paul say:

The churches of Judea glorified God in him--because he who persecuted [them] now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.

What the Father said:

What is the chief end of man?

Bro. Dallas

 

That's really a difference between monergists and synergists. Arminius was a synergist, but synergy is really about all the people who call themselves Arminians here really share with Arminius. After that, they depart from Arminius radically.

Synergists ascribe some of the glory to man, because they view salvation as cooperative. Any system of soteriology where man contributes to his own salvation by free will gives some of the glory to man. I don't see how any sane person can disagree with that. But it's not a matter of ascribing ALL the glory to man, but SOME of the glory, which (IMO) is too much.

So the synergist position is really "Creation is a theatre where most of the Glory goes to God, and some of it goes to man."

Unfortunately, the emphasis people here put on man's role makes it sound a lot more like "All the glory to man."

 

In that case, I agree with npetreley.

He hit the nail on the head. No babble in his post.

Bro. Dallas

 

Man saying I am a sinner God and you are the only who can save me - and so I ask you to come into my heart, cleanse my sins, and save me

In no way gives glory to man

Man says Im drowning God, you are the only who can save me, I ask you to come into the river, pull me out and thus save me

This does not give glory to man
This does not give glory to man
This does not give glory to man

I do not know how many times that even if man chooses salvation it ascribes no glory or merit to him. All glory is still God's

I think I will repeat it for you

This does not give glory to man
This does not give glory to man
This does not give glory to man

 

Theology by analogy does not work, and this analogy is especially flawed.

Although propagandists do use this technique effectively to convince people that a lie is true, repeating something again and again doesn't make it true.

 

exactly the same understanding. for both models disallow God from receiving all of the intended Glory he purposed in himself to receive.

as alike in both camps of calvinism and arminianism. they both espouse that some men are ultimately seperated from Gods presence.

Gods Glory is to bring all of creation into a mature understanding of the image he designed them to become.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

 

exactly the same understanding. for both models disallow God from receiving all of the intended Glory he purposed in himself to receive.

as alike in both camps of calvinism and arminianism. they both espouse that some men are ultimately seperated from Gods presence.

Gods Glory is to bring all of creation into a mature understanding of the image he designed them to become.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. </font>[/QUOTE]Dear Me2,
What is a worker of iniquity?

Bro. Dallas

 

Frogman,

Ask Job...His friends came to comfort him, Yet all denied the sovereign design of God in Gods will to be fully manifested.

they accused Job of sinning, not favoring Gods mercy, or not acting according to their doctrines of their rightness....thus deserving Gods wrath.

a worker of iniquity is one who is witnessing falsehood about the character of God as well as teaching it to others.

 

People who think and believe similar to me are startled by the topic: "A Theatre of God's Glory--Calvinism and Creation". The usually mistaken idea is stated like this. Calvinism best reflects the complete glory of God via this system of theology.

In the light of God's attributes of love and justice, we find God who picks and chooses His elect and non-elect compromises not only the theological study of the Attributes of God, but also the written manuscript that we call the Bible meaning God's Word to humankind.

The Bible teaches that this holy God has offered salvation [John 3:16] and eternal life [I John 5:13] to all sinners by His atonement on the Cross. [I John 2:2]

While those who believe will be saved and those who neglect Jesus will be damned, nevertheless, God has included in His eternal plan the final punishment of the non-elect in Hell. It is a stretch for me to say that God finds glory in the destruction of His lost souls in Hell, in the light of II Peter 3:9 which says, '(He) is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.'

On the other hand, I am also reminded of the verse in the Bible that says,

'The Lord hath made all things for Himself, even the wicked for the day of evil.' [Proverbs 16:4]

Heaven is bliss and Hell is torment [Matthew 5:22,29, and 30, and God has created these places for human beings. Human beings are going to one of these two destinations.

God's glory is not determined by what we do with our lives; He very nature is filled with His own glory and praise.

Berrian, Th.D.