A video clip of Obama making fun of the Bible ...

That's why I said that Obama, very clearly, has not spent much time in the Word or he would know that they don't.

Moral laws....yes. Ceremonial laws....no.

Sounds like he is trying to find an excuse for killing babies and passing gay rights laws.

 

Yes, it is. I know that we have a constitution that protects even non-christians, but folks that are christian should promote the election of folks that at least claim to represent christian values.

And yes, biblical principles do apply to us and our country today. I realize that the OT laws, (the Law Of Moses) is outdated as far as practical application goes, but God's principles that He instilled into the Jews are still just as valid as they were 5,000 years ago. The idea that God has changed because the world has changed is a tool of Satan.

AJ

 

So you would accept a federal or state court sentence of stoning for children who don't respect their parents?

 

Well, I cant believe it, I finally have an example where the Almighty MaHahRoger is wrong.

Read back to what I posted. I said that the OT laws of Moses were outdated....even Jesus preached that the Law was fulfilled.

What I did say, and that I will stand by for as long as I live, is that biblical principle has never changed and never will.

The principles of the OT are just as valid today as they were 5000 yrars ago. But the way God applies them are differnet.

OK, I have a 3 year old son, and I have a set of morals and principles that I want him to learn, and hopefully adhere to when he is grown. But, while he is only 3 years old, I can only give him so much teaching that I can expect him to learn and understand.

As he grows, I can only teach him what he is capable of learning through his own experiences. I want him to learn all of the principles right now, but he is not able or capable of learning everything at this time.

So, as he grows, I will adjust what I teach him, and what rules he has to obey according to his growth progress. But, my principles of what I want him to learn will never change. I just adjust his teaching and his rulles according to what he is capable of handling..In other words, my principles that I want to teach him will never change, but the way I teach him, and what I expect from him will change as he grows.

I believe it is the same with God and us. God's principles have never changed, but his way of teaching us and dealing with us has changed as we have grown.

AJ

 

The turn-your-cheek comment just reveals the profound ignorance the man has about the Bible, and is the kind of thing I often hear from non-believers. Referring in another speech to Romans 1 and calling it "obscure," is laughable--the most important book in the Bible is Romans!

1. The Sermon on the Mount has NOTHING to do with governments of men--it has to do with Kingdom principles for the Kingdom of God. The Sermon on the Mount is for the Church, not for any human national entity.

2. As far as the OT Law goes, the code in its entirety was the national law of Israel. The parts that still apply are re-stated in the NT, and nearly all of the things that are considered crimes in the NT are, and have been, considered crimes by most societies.

3. Governments, on the other hand, are not only allowed to take violent measures to preserve order and defend against evil doers, they are REQUIRED by God to do so, as their ministry to God (whether they believe in Him or not). Rom 13:1-8

4. The bases for American law are the Bible and English Common law.

5. On issues of morality, right, and wrong, let's identify some issues and show how the Bible definitely impacts policy.

a. Robbery--thou shalt not steal

b. Murder--thou shalt not kill (a different concept from "slay.")

c. Slave trading, murdering your parents, pornography, kidnapping, and perjury (and homosexuality ) are condemned in 1 Tim 1:9-10

 

Who needs him. This is what America is coming to. I for one has heard enough of him.

 

How does the Dept. of war fulfill Christ's commands?

Mat 5:9 Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

 

Hey look....I can quote scripture out of context as well!:thumbs:

Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

 

The Sermon on the Mount tells Christians how to live their lives. We can try to dodge that truth, as you do, or we can embrace the truth given to us by our Savior, the Prince of Peace NOT the god of war.

 

Dodge what? Get your glasses fixed BB, that is the point I made, that that the Sermon on the Mount is for Christians, individually and corporately, but the Sermon does not apply to the state.

Have you not read Romans 13?

(Rom 13:1-8) "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor. 8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law."

The authority this refers to is the Roman government and army! If the Roman Army, in keeping order, is turned into God's minister, how much more the army of our democratic republic?

As Jesus said in Mat 22:21, "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."


And of course, there is this:
(1 Pet 2:11-17) "Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul, 12 having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles, that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation. 13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme, 14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good. 15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men; 16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God. 17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king."

 

I agree. Then Christians will abide by the teachings of the Sermon on the Mount and not support things that are contrary to it, right? Like war.

 

I would beg to differ with you. I don't know if he was truly "mocking" the Bible but he was trying to justify not using God's guidance in his and others' decision making.

If I were to say, hey go ahead and watch porn, have sex with multiples, involve yourself with homosexuals, drink as a drunkard etc. Would this be OK in GOD'S eye’s? Could the argument be used since you’re in Rome you are doing as the Romans per say, as it is legal? No, you would not be justified in Gods eye’s.

Borack Obama was justifying to the secularists, atheists, homosexuals etc; how he feels he can, and as others should also, disregard their beliefs in regards to Government and decision making. He attempted to do this in a Constitutional or Democratic fashion but such is far removed from that.

“Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal…values” No it does not!

“Now this is going to be difficult for some who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible….but in pluralistic democracy, we have no choice.” This is ridiculous and yes we do!

“…To base one's life on such uncompromising commitments may be sublime, but to base our policy making on such commitments would be a dangerous thing”.


This is simply someone who fails to understand the premise of democracy, our history, and the message of Jesus. We are instructed as Christians to act properly within society and government. We have the Golden Rule which states, “Do unto others as you would have done unto you”. Christians understand people have the choice of accepting or rejecting God. We also respect people have the choice of worshiping Him as they best choose and as the Founders saw it. Obama is confusing Christianity with other religions or he is incapable of respecting other peoples faith.

He completely and purposefully misrepresents the Constitution. He also disregards God in this respect and yes one could argue "mocks".

1) NO WHERE DOES THE CONSTITUTION STATE a Representative or Individual has to check his faith at the door in policy making or in voting, respectfully. In fact the Constitution strongly refutes what Obama is espousing as it protects such Rights.

No President has ever had to check his beliefs at the door or ignore them in his decision making. Many religious Proclamations easily show this alone.

It is also pure idiocy to say a Representatives' faith cannot help govern his/her decision making. A perfect example is in regards to Abortion, Infanticide, Homosexuality, and Sanctity of Marriage issues. All of which are Christian and moral issues and much of what Obama has/was speaking upon. He supports all these issues and is strongly supported by the gay community. He supports abortions at all stages. He supports Infanticide. At best he is morally indifferent to such. What kind of Christian is that as Jesus certainly condems such! Infanticide “the practice of someone intentionally causing the death of an infant” wikipedia

I would say someone who would support allowing a child to die through neglect, after an initial failed attempt to kill the child, is all around a pathetic individual.

It is also pure idiocy to say We the People should disregard our beliefs when it comes to electing our Representatives. This is the major farce when Obama suggests faith cannot or should not guide decision making. Because WE THE PEOPLE elect our Officials and know exactly where they stand in regards to such issues and faith.

What Obama did was as most Secular Christians and Atheists often do; which is simply to attempt to justify their positions on un-Godly issues as Abortion and Homosexuality etc; by choosing to completely ignore the will of God.

2) Not only does he miss-quote the Bible but also misrepresents or misunderstands it. A Christian should understand, as Dobson noted, that we are under the New Testament Covenant. That is to say Christ Jesus, IE: why we proclaim to be Christian, gave us a higher standard to live by and as we find salvation through Him. This is my poor attempt to clarify. Anyhow, many things which are in the Old Testament, as Obama quoted interchangeably with the New Testament, do not apply to us today.


The Old Testament describes how our enemies/wicked were destroyed or to be destroyed. Jesus said to "Love thy enemy" and "Do unto others as you would have done unto you". This does not mean a person cannot protect themselves in regards to thieves or murderers or even "terrorists", as the case of a nation. However, this is instruction in having a forgiving heart and the willingness to reconcile. Again though, this does not mean we cannot protect ourselves as the Bible says otherwise. Jesus instructs the Disciples to purchase a "sword" for protection; in anticipation of their soon undertaking the great commission alone. Luke 22:35-38.

Remember, Obama is justifying his position in ignoring or limiting faith in regards to decision making. As he is running for Presidency he is speaking in regards to his professed Christian faith. Jesus gives such instruction as "love one another" and yet Obama cannot decide how to interject his faith? Instead he tries to quantify other faiths in this regards by interchanging Old Covenant with New Covenant? Again, he was making assurances to certain un-Godly groups and attempting to justify his above stance!

Well, I agree with your concerns and these are major sins of our Nation which we should pray about. However, I still have no problem stating we are a Christian nation as the vast majority of Americans still claim such and we were founded upon those principles. I just pray a day does not come in which I cannot make that statement. The above however occurred because we are a nation of sinners and allowed it to become an intricate part of society. We could never be in complete harmony with God as we are flawed but people and nations who openly reject God will reap what they sew. Biblical Israel often found itself in sin against God but He still claimed them as His. Their Punishments and Blessings were as God judged.

An Obama presidency would be devastating in regards to the above alone. He beleives Jesus' Sermon on the Mound to be "radical" and that there are "many" ways to God or heaven. Jesus says He is the "only" way. Obama thinks a child is "punishment" or can be as such. God says children are a "blessing".

:godisgood:

 

So for what purpose does God want the powers that be to bear the sword? Just to look good on parade? God ordained the state to go to war to protect the order of society. A Christian who opposes that idea opposes God.

 

Just keep on believing that Jesus wants us to kill other human beings. That's your right. I don't accept it. That's my own interpretation of the Bible. I believe that Jesus taught us to love our neighbors not to go to war against them.

 

It does not make any difference what your interpretation is. Romans 13 is crystal clear. When I bore the sword (in my case, the tool box, then later, a hand held radio), I was acting as a minister of God. That is what the Bible says. Every police officer or member of our military is a minister of God. Plain English--it is refreshing.

 

So, the individual Christian is exempt from abiding by the Sermon on the Mount when acting for the state?

 

When you bear the sword for the state, you are a MINISTER OF GOD. A Christian carrying a weapon for the state is a MINISTER OF GOD. I Christian policeman is a MINISTER OF GOD, a Christian fighter pilot is a MINISTER OF GOD. While you are bearing the sword for the state, in whatever form that is, you are not an individual private citizen, you are a MINISTER OF GOD.

Jesus encountered several Roman Centurions--he never told them to lay down their arms and quit. The first Gentile family saved was that of Cornelius, and Peter did NOT tell him to hang up his sword. Jesus indeed told Peter to put his sword away, because Peter was acting as a private individual. John the Baptist's advice to soldiers was interesting:

(Luke 3:12-14) "Then tax collectors also came to be baptized, and said to him, "Teacher, what shall we do?" 13 And he said to them, "Collect no more than what is appointed for you." 14 Likewise the soldiers asked him, saying, "And what shall we do?" So he said to them, "Do not intimidate anyone or accuse falsely, and be content with your wages.""


When I was protecting all of the pacifists from the bad people out there, I had fewer rights; I lived a very restricted life. I could not go just anywhere or do just anything. For the 20.5 years I served in the ministry of the sword, my life was constricted and controlled, because that's the way it is.

(2 Tim 2:4) "No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier."

(Rom 13:1-8) "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor. 8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law."

 

So, there IS an exemption to the Sermon on the Mount for actions done in the name of the state?

 

No exemption--part of obeying Christ is to obey the powers that be--Rom 13, 1 Pet 2:11-17. Christ's instructions on the Mount are for individual people acting as individuals. What a chaotic and rude world this would be without protectors--that is why God set it up that way.

 

It would be more correct to say that all believers are exempt from what the Sermon on the Mount does NOT say that people think it does!