A video clip of Obama making fun of the Bible ...

First of all, I am disappointed that you feel the need to resort to sideways insults to try and prove your point.

Secondly, Obama is merely questioning how far we we should go as a state in incorporating the Bible. No one has questioned here that God's principles have changed. The question is whether or not it is the state's role to intervene and legislate the laws that God intends for His people on society in general.

Where do we get the idea that the state and its laws should conform to God's people? We have always been on the outside, what makes us think now that our thoughts and ideas are to be part of the mainstream?

Obama may have shown ignorance of God's word - I have yet to hear a major politician who had his or her theology straight, but he was hardly mocking God's word, despite what the voice over claimed.

 

The state, nor its laws will ever conform to God's people, but its still God's people's responsibility to inject as much godliness into our governement as possible.

I get so aggravated when I hear christians that support ungodly legislation or candidates make the excuse that they believe in the speration of church and state. That argument is so misused. Somehow, christians have developed the idea that it is wrong to apply biblical principles when dealing with the government. I say that is wrong. biblical principles apply to ALL aspects of one's life.

<personal attack deleted - LE>
AJ

 

Personal attacks are forbidden on this board - your post has been reported to the moderator. I don't moderate debates where I am involved. You recently started a thread oin how disappointed you were with this board for being unchristian, personally insulting a brother in Christ is hardlky that way to fix it.


I am interested in your comment that Christians to inject godliness into our government. Could you provide the basis for your reasoning please? I don't see the word of God providing that teaching.

We are to be testimonies, to share the word of God, to let our light shine before men. Where are we taught to christianise the state?

 

Thats one of the dumbest things I have ever heard from a christian.

If it wasnt for war, you wouldnt even have the right to be wrong.

Were you a hippie back in the day? You sound like one of those idealogical "flower children" that has an unrealistic view of the world.

Tell you what, leave your door unlocked and open every night when you go to sleep and see how much "love" comes in during the night.

How come you focus only on the "love" that Jesus taught, but ignore all of the scripture that tells us what Jesus hates, and there is quite a bit of it. Do a search on the word "hate" and see how many times the Bible tells us things that the Lord hates. then do a search on "war" and see how many times God commanded His people to wage war on others.

Yes, the Bible teaches us to love our enemy, but it also teaches us that there is a time to fight, and to sometimes kill. I said "kill" not murder, so dont go and misquote the ten commandments to me.

AJ

 

Where do you find justification for seperating government from biblical standards?

Are you saying that as christians we should apply christain morals and standards to only some parts of our lives?

I believe that we are to hold to christian standards in everything we do, and yes, we should strive to christanise the state as much as we can.

I dont see a statement of fact as a personal attack. If we were discussing someone other than yourself that has a pride or arrogance issue then I am sure you would see the truth in that statement. But since it is yourself that is the topic, I am equally convinced that you will not understand what I am talking about, and I shouldnt have even brought it up.
AJ

 

Are you saying that it is ok for a person to be arrogant and condescending, but it is wrong for someone else to point it out?

AJ

 

We are to be the light of the world, we are to share the gospel, but our citizenship is in heaven. The state is not and never will be a functionary for the Lord. How can we hold a secular institution to our standards. The last time someone tried to have a 'Christian state' it was Rome and we see that happened there. The same, I fear, is happening in America now.

No matter what our culture or our government - we ae simply to live our lives in a way which honours Christ. We can never hope for a state which ruly reflects our views, and even if we did it would not be from the heart of men.

And back to the topic - Obama was hardly mocking the word of God. He showed ignorance of it, but I think his question is valid. How far do we go in trying to have a Bible based state. The state is made up of sinners, imposing our standards on the lost has never and will never work, Our goal should be a desire to see them truly saved - then we are on our way.

 

I am not going to be dragged off topic by a discussion of your feelings about me - they are not germane to the topic at hand, but personal attacks are forbidden on this board. You have been reported.

 

What other parts of our lives should we leave God out of?

AJ

 

You misquote me - or misunderstand my point. Your conjecture that I suggest leaving God out of any part of our lives is a misrepresentation of my view.

We vote, have a role, be the salt and the light, but we can't expect a secular state to conform to our standards. The country where live did that in the from the 30s-50s and it is still recovering. Ireland was packed with moral laws and the resultant deprivations of freedom, but it created a vile, insidious underbelly of sin a wickedness that still causes great pain and suffering today.

Our task is the share the gospel, be a solid witness for Christ. I simply don't see Christians expecting the state to act as our agent.

 

I dont expect the state will ever act as an agent for christianity, but that doesnt excuse me from the responsibility of promoting biblical standards when given the oppurtunity, such as voting.

My point is that christians use the same argument that you are making to totally disregard God when it comes to government. If Obama or anyone else is truley a christian, they should use christian standards when governing, not make excuses to do otherwise like Obama is doing.

AJ

 

I had a feeling when this debate started we were a lot closer than it appeared, thats why I was disappointed with the sidetrack. I think I agree with this entire post.

And back to the OP - I think that 'making excuses' is more accurate than 'making fun of the Bible.

 

Roger

My wife was just in here, and I showed her our discussion. she says that I was wrong to point out your arrogance, so I do apologise.

She said that I should be grateful for knowing you through the board, because now, instead of buying those expensive encyclopedias, I can just ask you about anything that I need to know. You are saving me money.

AJ

 

Yep, "excuses" seems to describe him more accurately.

AJ

 

You could always just use Wikipedia - it is also free and about as accurate as I am .

 

I think the gist of Obama's comments was that he was pandering to the secular left who have feared (or at least pretended to fear) a Christian theocracy coming to power in America. I know of no Christians who have advocated such, but the left has for years raised the specter. Obama was just setting up a strawman and then mocking it.

 

Mocking he was there is no doubt.

 

Yes, as if it were an inside joke among people who are more enlightened.

 

I agree with you. May GOD bless us with the Republican party which I haven't always agreed with. Oh, what a mess this country is in.

 

That was extraordinarily well-put.

Unfortunately, I do. Serves me right for hanging around Presbyterians, eh?