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Featured Abbreviated Word Study, G2564, Kaleo

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Van, Oct 3, 2014.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Post 19 is actually useful folks. Decide which of the four meanings of kaleo is intended for each verse. Then post the results.
     
  2. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    And some form of calling is where in that verse?
    I got the idea because you claimed they were from the NIV!
    What list? My list of what the NIV actually has --or your bogus list?
     
  3. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Easy...call calls called calling callings.
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    1) Mr. Rippon does not seem to even know how to use a NIV exhaustive concordance, yet asserts with certainty that kaleo is not rendered in the 7 novel ways listed in post #16 ((1) host; (2) known as; (3) reckoned; (4) consecrated; (5) guests; (6) said to be; and (7) tell.) Denial of truth does not diminish truth.

    2) After denying that the NIV rendered kaleo 7 different times with a novel, not found in other translations, choice, he returns to the banality of observing "Your "choices" are not present in any English translation."
    Duh

    3) Mr Rippon demonstrated his grasp of the 4 different meanings of kaleo, apparently thinking the idea refers to different tenses (present, past or present continuing) or a different number (Sg or Pl). Go figure.

    4) Mr. Rippon reads Acts 7:58, with named bolded, and then asks where is the kaleo translated as something other than call. You have got to love them folks.
     
  5. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    In your post 16 you listed eight questions :

    Is kaleo translated ...
    Is kaleo translated ...
    Is kaleo translated ...
    Is kaleo translated ...
    Is kaleo translated ...
    Is kaleo translated ...
    Is kaleo translated ...
    Is kaleo translated ...

    Then you immediately followed up with :"Now how about the NIV? Let's see." You then produced your seven-itemed list. How is one supposed to follow your illogic? "Now how about the NIV" should logically have been citing the way in which kaleo was rendered in the NIV for those references. But leave it to you to disorder things.
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    1) Mr. Rippon does not seem to even know how to use a NIV exhaustive concordance, yet asserts with certainty that kaleo is not rendered in the 7 novel ways listed in post #16 ((1) host; (2) known as; (3) reckoned; (4) consecrated; (5) guests; (6) said to be; and (7) tell.) Denial of truth does not diminish truth.

    2) After denying that the NIV rendered kaleo 7 different times with a novel, not found in other translations, choice, he returns to the banality of observing "Your "choices" are not present in any English translation."
    Duh

    3) Mr Rippon demonstrated his grasp of the 4 different meanings of kaleo, apparently thinking the idea refers to different tenses (present, past or present continuing) or a different number (Sg or Pl). Go figure.

    4) Mr. Rippon reads Acts 7:58, with named bolded, and then asks where is the kaleo translated as something other than call. You have got to love them folks.
     
  7. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    You have the tendency to repeat yourself as if you are an authority or ... something.
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Lets see, Mr. Rippon says the NIV does not translate kaleo in at least 7 novel ways. And if he is wrong, well that is my fault for not providing the references.

    Mr. Rippon seems to think novel translation choices are an affront to scholars who did not make those choices. Nevermind that the NIV translators engage in that practice wholesale.

    Mr. Rippon posted a slew of verses using various forms of kaleo, but was unable to post which of the four word meanings was intended for each of these verses.

    Mr. Rippon seemed unable to find a bolded word in a verse.
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Kaleo can mean to invite or command, thus instruct conveys the message as well as "call" but avoids translating different word meanings using the same English word, thus missing the goals of fidelity and clarity.

    "invited or instructed," "rely wholeheartedly," "called or named" and "transferred," present a similar range of translation choices as the NASB, HCSB, and NIV. But they provide more concordance, more clarity, more fidelity, and more transparency that the other translations. Might other choices be better in some applications? Probably. The result of study is to consider the actual meaning intended when you come across the English words sometimes translating kaleo.
    Does a "holy calling" convey the same idea as a holy vocation, holy ministry, holy field of endeavor, etc. And what is it? Something special and individually constructed just for you, or does it refer to our job as ambassadors for Christ?
     
  10. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Now logically one would think that numbers 1-7 would bare a relationship to the references above. But nothing of the kind --logic is not his strong suit.
     
  11. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Your sentences are confusing.

    Using the word "instruct" for kaleo doesn't occur in any English translation, does it?
    The words 'instructed,' rely on wholehearedly,' and 'transferred,' as glosses for kaleo do not occur in any English Bible translation --do they?
     
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    More of the same generic nonsense - personal incredulity, rejection of novel translation choices as exhibited in the NIV, and so forth.

    Just because self professed Greek experts and word study denigrators say not to do word studies, do not fail to pay attention to all the schools and churches that offer training in word and phrase study.

    Check out this link:


    www.yoyomaster.com/ministry.file/wordstudy.html
     
    #32 Van, Oct 23, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2014
  13. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Straightforward questions for you. There is no need for you to dillydally. Simply reply.
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Simple answer, novel translation choices are made all the time, thus not being found in other translations does not indicate by itself, a flawed choice.
     
  15. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    And the very factual answer is... No, it does not.
    And the utterly truthful reply is...Certainly not.

    See, it doesn't hurt to simply tell the truth.
     
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Pointless observations are simply an effort to derail the thread.
     
  17. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Let's take a look at some references in the book of 1 Corinthians when it comes to the usage of the word call and its various forms. You will note that it is a novelty to use words other than forms of the word call in the references below.

    1:1 : called to be an apostle (called is used in all versions but the NLT -which uses "chosen.")

    1:2 : called to be his holy people (called is used in all except for the NASB and YLT which use calling.)

    1:9 : but to those whom God has called (called is used in all but the NLT which uses "invited.")

    1:26 : when you are called (both called and calling are used in all versions)

    7:15 : God has called us to live in peace (all versions uses called)

    7:17 : just as God has called them (all version use called)

    7:18 : when was he called ( it is used twice in this verse. On both occasions the word called is used with all versions except for the ESV which uses call and the NLT which uses something else.)

    7:20 : when God called them (all versions use called except for YLT which has calling)

    7:21 : when were you called? (all versions use called except for the NLT which opts for something else)

    7:22 : when called to faith...when called (all versions have called in both places in this verse)

    7:24 : when God called them (called is used in all versions)
     
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    More evidence that the four specific meanings of kaleo have been obliterated by translating the different meanings into the same English word, and other Greek words have also been translated into that same English word.
    1) Does kaleo appear in 1 Corinthians 1:1? Nope but G2822 does, klētos. Here one of the meanings is "selected." Thus 1 Cor. 1:1 could be understood to say selected as apostles.

    2) Does kaleo appear in 1 Corinthians 1:2? Nope. But G2822 does, still conveying the idea of being divinely selected.

    3) Does kaleo appear in 1 Corinthians 1:26? Nope. But G2821, klēsis, does. Here a divine invitation to embrace salvation not based on being wealthy, or being well born, or having power.

    4) Does kaleo appear in 1 Corinthians 10:27? Yes Perhaps Mr. Rippon excluded it because it was not always translated "called?" :)

    5) Does kaleo appear in 1 Corinthians 15:9? Yes. Perhaps Mr. Rippon excluded it because it was not always translated "called?" ​

    Or perhaps all these are inadvertent because Mr. Rippon is not proficient in word study based on Greek words and phrases.
     
    #38 Van, Oct 25, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2014
  19. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Let's hope that one day you will come to your senses and realize that legitimate translators who know what they were doing have translated correctly and that you are the odd-man out. You don't have the qualifications to set anyone straight when it comes to translating.
     
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    More evidence that the four specific meanings of kaleo have been obliterated by translating the different meanings into the same English word, and other Greek words have also been translated into that same English word.

    1) Does kaleo appear in 1 Corinthians 1:1? Nope but G2822 does, klētos. Here one of the meanings is "selected." Thus 1 Cor. 1:1 could be understood to say selected as apostles.

    2) Does kaleo appear in 1 Corinthians 1:2? Nope. But G2822 does, still conveying the idea of being divinely selected.

    3) Does kaleo appear in 1 Corinthians 1:26? Nope. But G2821, klēsis, does. Here a divine invitation to embrace salvation not based on being wealthy, or being well born, or having power.

    4) Does kaleo appear in 1 Corinthians 10:27? Yes Perhaps Mr. Rippon excluded it because it was not always translated "called?"

    5) Does kaleo appear in 1 Corinthians 15:9? Yes. Perhaps Mr. Rippon excluded it because it was not always translated "called?"

    Or perhaps all these are inadvertent because Mr. Rippon is not proficient in word study based on Greek words and phrases.
     
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