Abortion Is Wrong

I, in effect, do treat an embryo as a person when it comes to protecting the unborn. I don't think the issue of whether personhood occurs at fertilization or a few weeks after has a real effect on the morality of abortion. I've been very clear that even potential human persons have moral significance that outweighs the mother's rights to privacy and bodily autonomy.

I've enjoyed having a civil discussion with you, Targus. Fortunately I just happened to have most of the day free today so I was able to spend a good amount of time discussing this. You seem like a really good guy.

 

Thanks, I enjoyed it too.

 

Best post of the thread...
Abortion is the faithless way out.. and only the faithless support ANY kind of abortion in my opinion.

google "Jason Lovins Band" You will find a person whose mother was raped, and is now because she didn't have an abortion, he is one of the next rising stars of Christian music. He has opened for Mercy Me, and Natalie Grant, And as a personal friend of his, I can tell you he ALWAYS shares that testimony in his concerts. He points out that ALL abortions are sin... and God has plans for every human God creates.. AT CONCEPTION.

 

If life begins at birth or shortly before----how come it was--that when my wife was pregnant---they hooked her to a machine that let us hear the baby's heartbeat at 5 months???

You need to go back to college---brush up on basic human anatomy course that offers a view of human conception---when sperm meets egg(bingo!!) LIFE!!!!

And just to think---according to your opinion---YOU were once a blob!!!

 

I find two things interesting about this poll.

1. That there are 4 "Christians" who believe that abortion is not murder.

2. That there is non who hold to any of the middle ground views.

If murder is defined as the intentional taking of innocent human life, then how can abortion be anything else? There is no more innocent human life that an unborn child.

What's sad is that today, in America, the most dangerous place for a child to be is in the womb of his/her mother.

God help us.

 

Excellent! You've obviously read Psalms 139 and pondered it's meaning. It's great to have something to agree upon!

 

Boy, you guys are writing faster than I can read. Can''t get a word in edgewise.

Didn't Jesus tell you that if a man robbed you to give him the rest of your clothing or if he slapped you to turn the other cheek?

I would think this would fit in the "trust in God" series and allow God to determine who lives and who dies.

We are now playing God.

I don't know that Jesus would "in self defense" take out somebody with a gun or whatever. I understand why police carry guns, to protect other citizens from a criminal; however, does the Bible mention blowing somebody away because they threaten to kill you?

I think this might fit.

I do remember my mother who was a devout Southern Baptist all her life and she was concerned that my sister n law went to a Catholic hospital where the practice was "the baby lives--the mother dies". She did not believe in this; however, regardless of what I have said above. Because that mother may have other children to raise and a husband to take care of. etc. While a child that has a good chance of killing the mother is going to heaven anyway, then we have an adult who may or may not be a Christian.

Just some thoughts on abortion for the purpose of saving the life of the woman.

Some people here do not believe this occurs, but it happens all of the time and many women die during childbirth or pregnancy due to circumstances beyond their control, such as diabetes which jumps the sugar levels until after the birth of the child, or a dead baby who would become dead tissue that could kill the mother. Sometimes it is difficult to make this determination especially when the baby is very tiny and there is not yet an audible heart rate. There are many other reasons that could cause the woman to die. Pregnancy is a very risky time for the mother and we should consider that and her duties with the rest of her kids.

 

Hello everyone!

I am not sure about the fight going on at the moment but wanted to address Ann.

Ann, if you read my last post I did not speak in terms of absolutes and yes there are exceptions. I want to clarify a few things in this posting but am also including some very useful information in regards to the pill.

1) I stated the odds are lower in being able to get pregnant even if you were purposefully trying each month (15%-20%). Five to six months is the average and even up to one year is considered normal.

2) I said an egg will last up to 24 hours and sperm to 72 hours. Those are the generally accepted time frames. Yes, it can be longer but that it not typical.

http://www.early-pregnancy-tests.com/sperm.html


3) I make those points for the following of course. Throw into the mix people who are attempting not to get pregnant by using the pill. First, the odds are already naturally low; Second, the pill is highly effective at stopping the release of an egg; Third, the pill is effective at blocking sperm from ever reaching the egg. Thus the odds are vey low and your situation is one of the rarer exceptions.

http://www.estronaut.com/a/pregnancy_symptoms_issues.htm



4) I however was clear in stating the pill is not foolproof and gave references. Anyhow, I am not arguing for or against the pill and at best it gives me reason to pause! I just think we need to be careful in possibly placing unfounded or unrealistic moral quandaries upon people?

5) In researching this subject I came across some articles written by the Association of ProLife Physicians http://www.prolifephysicians.org/abortifacient.htm. They are Pro Life and believe life begins at conception http://www.prolifephysicians.org/. There is great debate in regards to whether the pill actually acts as a “abortifacient” and their article gives the pro/con positions of each. However, the data which suggests oral contraceptives act as an abortifacient are based upon false premises as they note. It is based upon unfounded claims/touts by the drug manufacturers and research with in vitro fertilization, which isn’t a natural process. You can draw your own conclusion as to whether they are strictly referencing in vitro as the article is somewhat challenging and also states “medical literature”.

They make the point that a moral stance could be taken in regards to the pill.

http://www.prolifephysicians.org/calculations.htm

I have contacted them in regards to this specific point because I would like to know if the difference in percentages is based 1) strictly upon the beneficial effects from the natural hormones as found in the pill or 2) if they are saying women on the pill will also have fewer miscarriages simply because they are on the pill? The various articles and quotes above seem to strongly state the former. After all, the pill fools the body into thinking it is pregnant with these hormones and thus no egg is released. However, if an egg is released and fertilized then pill could act as a positive factor?

I think the pill is a good debate but I cannot bring myself to argue against it at this time. It should never be placed on equal terms as abortion. The entire read offers a lot of good information from both sides but I find myself agreeing with them at this time.

God Bless

 

I can not believe any Christians are trying to defend abortion. When it comes to politics, our nation says abortion for any reason is legal. But, I do not think that is how God looks at it. IMO, anyone who votes for a candidate that is pro-life, has the blood of millions of babies on their hands just as if they were killing them in the delivery room.

 

AMEN!... The fact that Christians can "Justify" abortion for any reason is a reflection on the weakness of the church in America.

When a person votes for a pro-abortion candidate, they are supporting abortion, and that makes them just as guilty of murder as the doctor that sucked the brains out of the innocent baby.

Sadly, Christians have allowed Satan to blind them to the sins they are committing and promoting all in the name of economics and choice.

Until Christians get back to God in America, this nation will continue to self-destruct.

I thank God that My God creates life and not "Blobs"...

Any person that says a baby in the womb is a Blob, needs to spend some time with Jesus... then repent for their sins.

 

I think that early embryos are blobs because they look like blobs.

 

I know. I'm talking about before cell differentiation starts when it really is a blob. Tinytim make it sound like there's something wrong with accurately describing the first phase of human development as a blob. There's nothing wrong with being a blob; I used to be one. Don't forget that these blobs have a right to life, too.

 

I assume you meant pro-choice, not pro-life. I'd suggest you check your facts and read the Roe v. Wade decision. The government can and does restrict abortion in the second and third trimesters. Furthermore, your damnation of people who vote for pro-choice candidates is absurd. You can't always get a candidate you agree with on every single issue.

 

You are right. This is the one subject that really get under my skin!

 

You are right I did mean pro-choice. I also agree that you can not find a candidate that you can agree with on every single issue. But, joining them in the murder of defenseless babies in their mothers womb will not ever get my vote. I may fail at many things but I refuse to intentionally becoming a party to baby murder by way of my vote.