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Abortion

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by 2 Timothy2:1-4, Oct 9, 2007.

  1. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLaai6o0O0A


    This is a video of actual abortions after the abortion has been completed. If you have a God given heart for the unborn child it will be hard to watch. This is what the libs want to remain legal. This is what many libertarians want to leave up to the states to decide to do. Why should we not vote for Ronnie? because he supports this genocide at the state level. No one should support this at any level. It is murder. Even on the State level. Plain and simple.
     
    #1 2 Timothy2:1-4, Oct 9, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2007
  2. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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  3. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    ==Ron Paul does not support abortion. Anyone who claims he does is simply not being honest. Ron Paul believes that abortion should be dealt with at the state level and I tend to agree with him. Why? Because it is quickest way to cut the number of abortions and move towards ending the horrible practice. We will never end abortions at the federal level. However we do have a chance of ending abortion at the state level . If abortion were to be turned over to the states, how many states would ban it? More than a few. Then we could turn our focus to those states that still have legal abortions and work to change hearts and minds in those states. How do you change hearts and minds? Education and Salvation.

    "The right of an innocent, unborn child to life is at the heart of the American ideals of liberty." -Ron Paul
     
  4. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    Giving room to let states decide to slaughter and comitt this genocide does not end abortion. And allowing for abortion on any level is not actually prolife.
     
  5. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Discussions about abortion, Ron Paul, and states rights are interesting to discuss. However, every Christian that is inclined to vote Republican is going to have to face a real life decision next year.

    That decision is what are we going to do with Giuliani's support for abortion. This is not a theory, it is a very real possibility. It is not a states rights issue, it is voting for someone who supports abortion rights. Abortion is nothing but pure evil. This is quite a dilemma, Giuliani supporting abortion, or a 3rd party that helps elect Democrats.

    This is just me personally, because God regards all sin the same, but Giuliani's support for gay rights, if it was that alone, would be easier to vote for him as an overall candidate. There is something about abortion that makes my stomach turn above all other sins we commit.

    Our best solution is to pray that Giuliani loses the nomination to someone who at least acts like he is moral. What a terrible decision each of us will face if not.

    Remember how the Republicans always drag out the moral card in elections. Both Giulilani and Clinton are for abortion. Next moral fact, Giuliani has been married three times, Clinton once. This is no defense of her, but to point out, we have better nominate a person of real difference.
     
  6. SBCPreacher

    SBCPreacher Active Member

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    Being one who will never support a pro-abortion candidate for any position, I'm concerned that I will not have a candidate to vote for come election time. I refuse to cote for the lesser of two evils if both of them are pro-death.
     
  7. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    ==That is not a reply to what I said. You have brushed aside my whole point. If you have reached the point where you believe there is only one way to end abortion, then you have reached a sad and highly unproductive point. There is more than one way to end abortion. The federal attempt, which you support, has been tried for nearly thirty years and has not only failed but has backfired. There comes a point where you have to start looking at other ways to end the practice.

    I could turn your argument back on you and say that you are not pro-life since you don't favor the quickest way to cut down and then end abortion.
     
  8. Sopranette

    Sopranette New Member

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    I would agree with that. You don't take down a brick wall like pro choice by slamming into it over and over. You take it down by removing one brick at a time.

    love,

    Sopranette
     
  9. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    You are under the mispercieved assumption that getting rid of federalism is an easier road than a constitutional amendment on abortion. This is wrong.

    I am not for federalism as you say. Niether am I for doing away with the federal government. The failure of the abortion law is not because it has been at the federal level. It is because it was the wrong law. And it is a disengenuine attempt to say that a federal constitutional amendment is wrong because the wrong law was there to begin with.

    Just how many slaughtered lives are acceptable at the state level?
     
  10. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    You all can talk all day about Ron Paul and states rights. It is not going to happen. What are you going to do with Rudy Giuliani when he becomes the Republican nominee?
     
  11. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    Not vote for him.

    The Republican Party does not own my vote and they need not expect my vote if they nominate another big government liberal like George W Bush, Giuliani, Thompson, or McCain. A clearly pro-choice candidate will never get my vote. However, at this time, I am not ready to follow James Dobson into the wilderness of a third party.
     
  12. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    ==You will never get a constitutional amendment passed. Period. It is time for pro-life conservatives to deal with political reality and stop living in a dream world. Attempting to end abortion at the federal level has not and will not work (unless our whole political culture changes overnight). Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, D James Kennedy, the Moral Majority, and the Christian Coalition (among others) have spent nearly thirty years trying to end abortion on the federal level. They have failed. Their methods have not and will not work. The best way to cut the number of abortions by a large percentage, and then work to end the practice all together, is to allow states to pass anti-abortion laws and keep the federal government (courts, congress, senate, white house, etc) out of the picture. The states that remain pro-choice will become mission fields. In those states we must seek to education and evangelize their population until abortion is banned in them.

    ==You are never going to get abortion banned at the federal level. Have you not learned that from the past thirty years? It does not matter how you word it, what version of a law you try to pass, or how you attempt to fly under the radar, it will not work. Our federal political enviornment is too far gone for it to work. To end abortion we are going to have to turn to the states (where the people's voice still counts).

    ==None, but how many slaughtered lives are acceptable while you continue your vain attempt to get abortion banned through a federal constitutional amendment? Your approach is wasting time and therefore it is costing lives. To cut abortion and put us on a serious road to ending it, we must get the federal government out of the picture.
     
  13. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    I notice you did not put Romney in that catagory. Do you think of him as a conservative, limited governmnet candidate?
     
  14. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    ==No, I just forgot about him.
     
  15. kubel

    kubel New Member

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    Has voting for a pro-life president ever stopped the murder? I agree with Martin here, we are getting nowhere focusing on the Federal government. Time to switch tactics and start small.

    A lot of people, myself included, have cared more about voting big. We spend hours debating with others and researching into presidential candidates, but our voice throws more of a punch starting small. Local and state is where we need to focus our attention. That's where we will see the most results.

    :tonofbricks:
     
  16. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1 Active Member

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    What an impossible dilemma. The GOP needs a knight in shinning armor, that believes exactly as I do. :smilewinkgrin:
    Good points sn.
     
  17. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    The best way to reduce the number of abortions through the preaching of the gospel of Christ Jesus. The more people that come to Christ Jesus in repentance and faith the fewer the number of abortions will be.
     
  18. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed New Member

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    First of all, I wouldn't say it's not going to happen. I will continue to work and support Dr. Paul until such a time as he is no longer a candidate, whether that be by withdrawing from the race or winning the nomination.

    This thinking is precisely the reason we continually are fed the same string of candidates. We all jump on the reform bandwagon until we become afraid that the "other" side may actually win. We then revert back to the "old" party and forget about everything we said before. I am tired of doing that.

    I figured out last year in our gubernatorial election that I can vote for a 3rd party candidate, and it's okay, even if they don't win.

    Speaking solely for myself, I will not vote for Giuliani. In fact, if he wins the nomination, I might just hold my nose, grit my teeth, twist my own arm, and vote for Hillary as a shot against the "Grand Old Party" of death and big government, and I don't mean the Democrats.
     
  19. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1 Active Member

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    As many of us have expressed our angst at the upcoming elections, I really wonder how we got into this mess. The conservative right wing has no one good enough to support at this time. Principalities and powers?? :praying:
     
    #19 hillclimber1, Oct 10, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2007
  20. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    Again the difficulty level of an ammendment and getting abortion sent back to the states is no different. And we should not send a message that abortion is acceptable anywhere any time.



    No farther out than it is from getting it returned to the states.


    It is never vain to fight for the lives of the innocent and unborn. All of them not just some of them. Did you watch the video?
     
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