Accuracy and Precision

that's right. that was the topic of an Ed.D. dissertation by Gail Linam in Dallas, n the results were devastating for the KJB, for both church campus kids n the bused kids.

check this out: http://www.post1.com/home/amarillo/Linam93.htm </font>[/QUOTE]But then I would have to question Linam's comprehension of the passages to know whether her bias is unbiased.

Here, let me paint a littel picture: There are several men and women in a room. The defendent in a case is brought before the court for 1st degree murder. The defendent's plea is self-defense. After consideration of all the testimonies including eye witnesses to the alleged murder, the men and women in the room declare the defendent justified of self-defense, even though the actual court case ended in finding him guilty of 1st degree murder after hearing the same exact case presented in the same way.

Now let's take a little look into the character of the men and women mentioned in the first part of the picture, all of whom are serving life sentences for 1st degree murder on death row.

Now who do you think would give a fair trial?

I would believe Linam's motive wasn't to make an unbiased analogy, but to try to implicate the KJB as less understood to the applause of the mv crowd.

Now I have told you all my stand on the KJB, I am NOT KJVO, but I have considered the mv's at times, but to no avail due to the lack of my ability to comprehend the way they read. Now some are close, but HankD, "no cigar".

Just give me that old time religion, it's good enough for me!

 

QuickeningSpirit: //Ed, now go back to the KJB
and explain what "tablets" are?//

You still haven't told me which is
the KJB and i have three different KJVs on
my computer desk. Every day that goes by Bro
Will that you don't tell me which of my three
KJVs to look into to get your KJB,
the more your credibility wanes. Quite frankly,
your credibility is approching zero, nill, zilch,
nada.

In Numbers 31:50 in the nKJV is the phrase:
"every man found" but in the KJV1769
it says: "every man hath gotten".

Because you don't bother to use the REAL KJB,
you don't notice that both meanings are
possible for the Hebrew word being translated.

 

Craigbythesea, Relax. QS is a button pusher par excellance.

HankD

 

Had it been, she surely would not have been able to publish her dissertation. Having been a doctoral student myself, I can tell you that these things are carefully weeded out.

It was a basic study, and was shown to be statistically significant. The study was valid, replicable, and quite clear in its implications. It's funny how the only argument against it is a call of bias without any proof whatsoever.

My favorite part of the study shows that 100 percent of the non-Christian students were unable to answer 44% of the questions, which were quite simple. This brings our mission as Christians into stark focus. How can we reach the children of the world for Christ using a tool that 100% can't comprehend?

The questions were simple:

"Who was the story about? How did the story begin? What were the men trying to do in the story? What did the men do to try to solve their problems?"

and here is the passage in question:

2 Kings 7
3 And there were four leprous men at the entering in of the gate: and they said one to another, Why sit we here until we die?
4 If we say, We will enter into the city, then the famine is in the city, and we shall die there: and if we sit still here, we die also. Now therefore come, and let us fall unto the host of the Syrians: if they save us alive, we shall live; and if they kill us, we shall but die.
5 And they rose up in the twilight, to go unto the camp of the Syrians: and when they were come to the uttermost part of the camp of Syria, behold, there was no man there.
6 For the LORD had made the host of the Syrians to hear a noise of chariots, and a noise of horses, even the noise of a great host: and they said one to another, Lo, the king of Israel hath hired against us the kings of the Hittites, and the kings of the Egyptians, to come upon us.
7 Wherefore they arose and fled in the twilight, and left their tents, and their horses, and their asses, even the camp as it was, and fled for their life.
8 And when these lepers came to the uttermost part of the camp, they went into one tent, and did eat and drink, and carried thence silver, and gold, and raiment, and went and hid it; and came again, and entered into another tent, and carried thence also, and went and hid it.
9 Then they said one to another, We do not well: this day is a day of good tidings, and we hold our peace: if we tarry till the morning light, some mischief will come upon us: now therefore come, that we may go and tell the king's household.

And here's the more understood version:


3 Now there were four men with leprosy [1] at the entrance of the city gate. They said to each other, "Why stay here until we die? 4 If we say, 'We'll go into the city'-the famine is there, and we will die. And if we stay here, we will die. So let's go over to the camp of the Arameans and surrender. If they spare us, we live; if they kill us, then we die."
5 At dusk they got up and went to the camp of the Arameans. When they reached the edge of the camp, not a man was there, 6 for the Lord had caused the Arameans to hear the sound of chariots and horses and a great army, so that they said to one another, "Look, the king of Israel has hired the Hittite and Egyptian kings to attack us!" 7 So they got up and fled in the dusk and abandoned their tents and their horses and donkeys. They left the camp as it was and ran for their lives.
8 The men who had leprosy reached the edge of the camp and entered one of the tents. They ate and drank, and carried away silver, gold and clothes, and went off and hid them. They returned and entered another tent and took some things from it and hid them also.
9 Then they said to each other, "We're not doing right. This is a day of good news and we are keeping it to ourselves. If we wait until daylight, punishment will overtake us. Let's go at once and report this to the royal palace."

Not a single bit of meaning has changed, but the understanding is much greater. So the question is, Why not the MV? If we care about the outside world, and I believe we should, then should we not yearn for a translation in which the children and students of the world can understand?

Then keep it to yourself and leave those who have seen God work through modern versions alone.

 

Ed, this is Ricky.

Looks like you need to place the "nKJV" to the side and get the 1769 Revision, of the spelling of words, in the KJB.

The idea of "found" could mean to pillage, but the KJB says "hath gotten" in full harmony with the context of the passage being the items called "jewelry" are those attained by conquor.

We are more than conquerors in Christ Jesus, not pilferors and pillagers.

Now, will you answer my question concerning "tablets" from any source, Biblically?

 

Is this a command? Funny, I don't find that in any version, perversion and piousness, yes, catholocism ring a bell?

Your post related the subject matter of Linam's study. I don't know which "perversion" you say is the more understood, but there is definitely big differences in these passages departing from the text of the KJB.

If thye kill us, of course we die, that sounds stupid. The KJB has it in what is to be understood, the lepers saw their condition as futile, they said if they kill us, we will but die, as in it will make no real difference to their helpless estate. That isn't found in the STUPID remark."if they kill us, then we will die"

You mean if they kill us then there's a possibility we won't be dead? Of course NOT, if you kill something OF COURSE IT'S DEAD!

Let me ask you a question regarding the statement from your "perversion", when would they have "died", right before they were "killed" or after?

Some one of your boasted education should very easily see the stupity in the statement, and the utter lack of literary clarity and slightedness of pure excellance.

It's my stand on the KJB and your inability to sway me that eats you alive! LYTS

 

Merely a suggestion.

The perversion is seen in the trampling of orthodoxy found in the KJVO position. Linam's study is sound, verifiable, replicable, and applicable.

If thye kill us, of course we die, that sounds stupid. The KJB has it in what is to be understood, the lepers saw their condition as futile, they said if they kill us, we will but die, as in it will make no real difference to their helpless estate. That isn't found in the STUPID remark."if they kill us, then we will die"</font>[/QUOTE]Notice, there is no difference between the two. You're having to grasp at straws. Not only is the remark not stupid (which I would again urge you not to trample the word of God in that manner), but it makes complete sense and is a more exact translation from the Hebrew.

In the context of their entire quote, it makes sense. One wonders if it makes sense to a 6th-grader how it doesn't make sense to a learned adult, unless that adult is deliberately closing his eyes.

Believe me, that doesn't eat me alive. Sorry to take away that joy there. It does bother me that someone who seems to be halfway intelligent could hold on to a position that says that the English supercedes the Greek.

 

Craigbythesea, Relax. QS is a button pusher par excellance.

HankD </font>[/QUOTE]Thank you for the compliment, and all this time I didn't think you cared!

You have to agitate the content of the barrel to wash out the dirt and grime.

That's for you Craig

 

Uh, Scott, that's the BIG difference, the KJB is the Word of God and the perversion you posted is NOT!

If the 6th grader understood the lepers as to die because they were killed, that is less than understanding. It's simple, you kill something it dies, but the KJB relates the futility of their death because of their helpless estate. The 6th grader might not understand that, but then the 6th grader is not the rule and thumb of understanding anyway and is usually in need of further education. The passage you quoted does not offer that understanding of their futility, so just admit it and know the KJB is superior, accurate, and precise!

And yes, my stand on the KJB does too bother you, if it didn't you wouldn't excrete your dilusive passion so less than eloquently.

 

So you are saying that the NIV isn't the word of God? How are you NOT KJVO?

It is because I choose to compare the English version with the Hebrew that I cannot say that the KJV is superior, more accurate, or more precise than the NIV in this verse. Muwth is a Qal perfect, and there is no "but," so that is an addition to the inspired Word of God. As a matter of fact the word that is translated "we shall but die" is the EXACT same word that is found in "we shall die" earlier in the passage. If God chose to use the same word in the same phrase, then one must wonder why the translators felt the necessity to add to the Scriptures in that manner.

I know several lost adults who did not graduate high school and have a low reading ability. I do not expect them to gain more education just so they can learn about the grace of Christ. I prefer the Word of God that can meet them where they are, just as Christ did when he ministered to the poor, the needy, the publicans, and the prostitutes.

Yawn. In my own understanding, the KJVO-crowd is nothing more than a housefly, annoying at times, but not really capable of doing anything.

 

This thread will be closed no earlier than 10:00 P.M. EST this evening.

 

&gt; Originally posted by QuickeningSpirit:
&gt; But then I would have to question Linam's comprehension of the passages to know whether her bias is unbiased.

see? i knew facts wldn't convince diehard KJBOs.

&gt; Here, let me paint a littel picture: There are several men and women in a room. The defendent in a case is brought before the court for 1st degree murder. The defendent's plea is self-defense. After consideration of all the testimonies including eye witnesses to the alleged murder, the men and women in the room declare the defendent justified of self-defense, even though the actual court case ended in finding him guilty of 1st degree murder after hearing the same exact case presented in the same way. Now let's take a little look into the character of the men and women mentioned in the first part of the picture, all of whom are serving life sentences for 1st degree murder on death row.

KJBO response: when faced w the facts, quickly invent a fictitious account of a jury comprising ppl fr death row. right.

&gt; Now who do you think would give a fair trial?

i dunno. Linam's not getting a fair trial for sure. instead of checking out the dissertation n the findings, throw it out first becos the conclusion doesn't fit one's preconceived ideas.

what has KJBOism contributed in terms of serious n honest study here? sorry anecdotal accounts don't count.

&gt; I would believe Linam's motive wasn't to make an unbiased analogy, but to try to implicate the KJB as less understood to the applause of the mv crowd.

is there a shred of reason to implicate her motive? (other than the fact that the findings aren't palatable to KJBOism?) IMAGINE if it were D.A. Waite who "discovered" the opposite, that babies in the womb smiled at readings fr KJB n frowned when read out of the NIV! wld anyone be surprised if that "finding" wld become the 67th book of the bible?

&gt; Now I have told you all my stand on the KJB, I am NOT KJVO, but I have considered the mv's at times, but to no avail due to the lack of my ability to comprehend the way they read. Now some are close, but HankD, "no cigar".

not KJBO? maybe u need to elaborate. i dunno, but what do u call something that quacks like a duck ...

&gt; Just give me that old time religion, it's good enough for me!


no, just gimme that old time superstition. but that wld be continuing to cast pearls ...

 

God created the housefly with an intended purpose. The mentality you impose concerning the housefly is evidence that God sent that housefly to bring you around to be aware of your own situation.

If it wasn't my being a type of housefly annoying you, you will continue to remain in a state of uncleanliness and corruption. Uh, the niv ?

 

If you substitued you for me and me for you in your post, the outcome would still remain biased.

 

So, in other words, you really don't know why exactly you believe that the English supercedes the original languages. That says a lot right there.

 

So, in other words, you really don't know why exactly you believe that the English supercedes the original languages. That says a lot right there. </font>[/QUOTE]O.K., Scott, is there anything in the Greek you can't say in English?

 

Originally posted by QuickeningSpirit:
"If it wasn't my being a type of housefly annoying you, you will continue to remain in a state of uncleanliness and corruption. Uh, the niv ?"

Pastor Bob has shown he's moderating this thread. You might check out one of the rules he posted for this board about derogatory remarks about the faith or salvation of others.

And note that no one has called YOUR faith/ salvation into question.

 

I wasn't doing that Cranston. I don't appreciate you reading that into my post either friend. I was associating what a house fly is attracted to literally, not anything to do with spiritually. I don't question Scott's, Craig's, Brian's, Ed's, Hank's,Your's, or anybody else's salvation.

I believe it is more your slant to make it look that way though, and I am sorry you see it like that.

I apologize if anyone else sees it the way you do, that was NOT my intention, so lighten up!