Acts 5:30

Yes.

There is no contradiction here;the "AND" does not denote two seperate events..The only problem is YOU and those that taught you that SLOP! If the KJV is that bad then WHY on earth do you still use it???!!!!!

 

It is quite clear that you just changed subjects. It is obvious that the Jeremiah we have today has something that the version thrown in teh fire did not have. For one thing, it has the story of the fire.

But the actual part that was thrown in the fire, we do not know whether what we have today is identical what was thrown in. He wrote in the second autograph, "all the words that were in teh first." That doesn't mean that he added anything to them. He obviously added other parts.

This is so patently obvious that it is hard to believe you missed it. It is even harder to believe that you called the orthodox doctrine of Scripture "twisted." Perhaps this fits in teh category of those who call "good" "evil." You have certainly just done that. It is quite possible that you did it out of ignorance, never having been taught the truth about Scripture. I sincerely hope that to be the case and I whope that you will set out with godly diligence to learn the doctrine of his word so that you may honor it in the future. Attacks on God's word are unbecoming of those who claim to follow it.

 

No guess-work.I believe the Bible over any of it's critics anyday.

You loose.

 

I think we all do. That is why we reject the types of arguments you put forth here. God's word teaches that they are wrong. Your attacks on God's word do not further the gospel. They destroy the faith of the unsuspecting and put you in the category of false teacher, because you are teaching something that is not true.

 

I have to agree with you to some extent, but only to some extent. Although I don’t believe that Acts 5:30 and 10:39 mislead anyone who is not intellectually challenged, there are other passages in the King James Bible that even the most intellectually gifted reader is likely to either misunderstand, or not understand at all:

"And Jacob sod pottage" (Gen. 25:29)
"And Mt. Sinai was altogether on a smoke" (Exod. 19:18)
"Dead things are formed from under the waters, and the inhabitants thereof." (Job 26:5)
"The noise thereof showeth concerning it, the cattle also concerning the vapor." (Job 36:33)
"Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing" (Psalm 5:6)
"For who can eat, or who else can hasten hereunto, more than I?" (Eccles. 2:25)
"The ships of Tarshish did sing of thee in thy market" (Ezek. 27:25)

The proponents of the KJV often claim that the KJV is easier for the common reader to understand than the NASB or some other “modern versions”. The KJV reads,

Gen 25:29 And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the field, and he was faint:
Gen 25:30 And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom.

The NASB reads,

Gen. 25:29. When Jacob had cooked stew, Esau came in from the field and he was famished;
Gen. 25:30. and Esau said to Jacob, "Please let me have a swallow of that red stuff there, for I am famished." Therefore his name was called Edom.

I wonder which one is REALLY easier to understand?

And then there are those radically archaic words in the KJV,

"bewrayeth"
"dureth"
"glistering"
"hoised"
"holpen"
"specially"
"stablish"

I visited a KJO church for a period of several months, and they did talk a little funny, but not nearly as funny as the KJV reads today.

But the KJV is not, of course, without merit. Much of it is very precious even to those who mostly use the “modern versions.” One of my favorite passages in the KJV is the following:

Psa 25:1 <A Psalm of David.> Unto thee, O LORD, do I lift up my soul.
Psa 25:2 O my God, I trust in thee: let me not be ashamed, let not mine enemies triumph over me.
Psa 25:3 Yea, let none that wait on thee be ashamed: let them be ashamed which transgress without cause.
Psa 25:4 Shew me thy ways, O LORD; teach me thy paths.
Psa 25:5 Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou art the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.
Psa 25:6 Remember, O LORD, thy tender mercies and thy lovingkindnesses; for they have been ever of old.
Psa 25:7 Remember not the sins of my youth, nor my transgressions: according to thy mercy remember thou me for thy goodness' sake, O LORD.
Psa 25:8 Good and upright is the LORD: therefore will he teach sinners in the way.
Psa 25:9 The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way.
Psa 25:10 All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.
Psa 25:11 For thy name's sake, O LORD, pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.
Psa 25:12 What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.
Psa 25:13 His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.
Psa 25:14 The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.
Psa 25:15 Mine eyes are ever toward the LORD; for he shall pluck my feet out of the net.
Psa 25:16 Turn thee unto me, and have mercy upon me; for I am desolate and afflicted.
Psa 25:17 The troubles of my heart are enlarged: O bring thou me out of my distresses.
Psa 25:18 Look upon mine affliction and my pain; and forgive all my sins.
Psa 25:19 Consider mine enemies; for they are many; and they hate me with cruel hatred.
Psa 25:20 O keep my soul, and deliver me: let me not be ashamed; for I put my trust in thee.
Psa 25:21 Let integrity and uprightness preserve me; for I wait on thee.
Psa 25:22 Redeem Israel, O God, out of all his troubles.

 

We all believe the Bible, but we do NOT all believe the lies of the KJO gang and their false criticisms of every Bible translation other than the King James translation of the Bible.

Why don’t we believe their lies? Answer: We have investigated every single one of their claims and have found them to be either simply erroneous or deliberately false. Indeed, in many cases I have found them to be DELIBERATELY FALSE. The ONLY other religious group I personally know of that deliberately makes false statements is the Watchtower Society, commonly known as the Jehovah’s Witness, and I don’t expect to see them in heaven!

1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1Ti 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

 

I understand RB, in either case the KJV has a translational weakness here.

HankD

 

I am certainly not KJVO, but this is an illustration of unnecessarily attacking the KJV.

"Whom ye slew and hanged on a tree" causes me no problems at all. It clearly depicts what happened.

They killed Jesus.
They hanged him on a tree.

What is the problem? If you want to say that is simply a difficult reading for the modern reader, fine, but it is not an error.

Both are true, so what is the real problem?

 

That depends on how one defines "error".

Personally, I don't believe any translation of the Scripture is "error" free (except for the NT translation of OT passages). My definition of "error" has at its root "faithfulness to the original language text".

To me and in that context Acts 5:30 in all English translations (but not the Greek of course) that I know of "slew" is in my opinion an "error".

I am sorry if I have offended you.

HankD

 

No offense here Hank. Just think, IMO, that is a "non issue."

 

Understood

HankD

 

Thanks for the clarification - no problem with that!

 

No, it doesn't. Your ignorance of Greek grammar does not make the reading wrong. It makes you wrong. "And" is a conjunction. A conjunction indicates a "joint or simultaneous occurrence." The killing (slew) and Crucifixion (hanging on a tree) were a joint or simultaneous occurrence. 4th grade English grammar.

If you are going to argue against the error of KJVOism don't use your own errors to do so! All you do is make the argument against KJVOism more difficult by using an argument so easily debunked!

 

Skanwmatos: //"And" is a conjunction.//

That is NOT all it is. There is also a polysendenton
"and" used in Hebrew and Greek instead of modern outlining.

Skanwmatos: // A conjunction indicates a "joint or simultaneous occurrence."//

Conjunctions such as "and" can connect:

1. two equal sets /both sets have the same contents but different names/
2. one set and it's subset
3. two unequal but similar sets /contains some common items/
4. two unequal and not similar sets /contains no commonitems/

Skanwmatos: // The killing (slew) and Crucifixion (hanging on a tree)
were a joint or simultaneous occurrence.//

This is your opinion. It is not "proved" by your above misuse of "and".
BTW, i'm not disagreeing here with Brother Skanwmatos, I'm only pointing
out he has not proved this conclusion by his limited meaning
for "and" the conjunction.

Skanwmatos: // 4th grade English grammar.//

Fine, conjunction = joint or simultaneous occurance
but in the 5th and higher grades you are supposed to learn about
the other meaning that "and" can take on.

 

[personal attack snipped], which "and" is obviously used as in the verse in question. It is not used as an appositive, and your illustration, but as a conjunction, joining the events in question.

I am so sorry that you are so obsessed with KJVOs [personal attack snipped]. There are so many correct reasons to oppose their position I can't help but wonder [personal attack snipped].

[ June 14, 2004, 12:46 AM: Message edited by: Christ4Kildare ]