Adam represented all men and Christ represented...who exactly?

Sounds like I have. I understand the interest in the subject. As one who also went down the road you are going, obviously in a different direction or to a different conclusion, my advice to you is keep your focus on Christ Jesus and not be too focused on controversy.

 

An avatar is an image, so if a screaming baby with a photoshopped army helmet with the caption 'Incoming' means Calvinism to you....HAHAHAHA

Really, that gave me a chuckle.

It is true that I have commented on this subject alot. Interesting that your counting my posts....weird actually.

But in any case, it goes to my point. It is something I have focused on in the past..alot. My advice to you is that it can be a distraction from a simple devotion to Christ.

 

I am really trying not to get any fatter. HAHAHA

I just have more to say than you do...but I thought you were saying that I focused on Calvinism twice as much as you. I hope that is not the case, but if so..how revealing!

It is a debate forum and this is a hot topic. Since it is your focus now, and your needing some ammo for whomever poor soul your going after with your sharpened daggers, I will be honored to take up the debate with you.

 

No way. I insist on being friendly, jovial, and generally nice. While also being brash at times. It's what we'ins in the south call manliness.

 

Yankee. :smilewinkgrin:

 

Gotta get in on this. I may live in Connecticut, but I am a North Carolina "tarheel" by birth. I lived there for my first 10 years when my family moved to Florida. But it was northern Florida where all the Southerners live, not down where all the Yankees live.

But I hold nothing against Yankees, six of my eight children were born north of the Mason Dixon line.

And speaking of manly, I am very proud of being a tarheel. That was a nickname that came from the Civil War.

Now maybe you understand why I am so stubborn and keep fighting with you Cals.

 

No.

Christ did not intercede for Him.

According to the flesh, yes. Obviously not according to election.

Obviously not.

 

Because the scriptures say contend for the faith.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Here Paul speaks of men who brought in false doctrine telling the believers in Galatia they had to be circumcised to be saved. And notice Paul said he did not submit to them even for one hour.

This is why I argue and debate. I believe Calvinism to be major error. And I don't just say it, I constantly show scripture you can examine for yourself to support my position. Those who differ in belief from me could easily challange my understanding and interpretation of the scriptures but never do. Why? If your doctrine is so sound, it sould be easy to prove by scripture. It should also be easy to prove me in error.

But I am not just going to sit back and let people teach what I believe to be error to others.

 

Well, if they believe the doctrines of Calvinism I have seen here, and they agree with those doctrines, then I believe them to be in serious error. Just because they are famous and well known does not make their doctrine sound. The Catholics could give you a list of dozens of what they consider great teachers of their faith. The Catholics know their names just as well as you know these Calvinists. Being well known and respected does not mean their doctrine was sound.

The Mormons would say Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were great men of God. Were they?

The Jehovah's Witness would say Charles Taze Russell, Joseph Franklin Rutherford, and Nathan H. Knorr were all great men of God. Were they?

As far as anybody being saved or not, I cannot possibly say that. Only God is the Judge, I will leave it to Him who judges righteously. That is none of my business. I try not to go there.

A person can be saved and be in error. Truth be known, I doubt any Christian anywhere is 100% correct on all doctrine. But that does not mean serious error cannot be known and easily refuted from scripture.

And that is the case with Calvinism, it can easily be shown to be error, there are literally hundreds of scriptures that contradict it. An example:

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

This verse clearly says a man hears the gospel, then believes it, and only after believing receives the Holy Ghost. This clearly teaches unsaved man has the ability to hear, understand, and believe the gospel, and upon doing so receives the Holy Spirit.

But Calvinism teaches the exact opposite. Calvinism teaches man receives the Holy Ghost first, then is enabled to have faith and the desire to hear the gospel. But there is not one verse in all the scriptures that shows this.

Another example from Acts 2

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

What does this passage show? It shows first these men heard God's word and were convicted (not regenerated). Then Peter tells them they must repent and turn from unbelief and trust Christ for forgiveness of sins. Then Peter tells them if they do this they will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Now, this fits Eph 1:13 perfectly, but absolutely contradicts the teachings of Calvinism.

So, I am not just saying Calvinists are in error and then not showing why as they often do with me. No, I am giving you scripture you can look up in your Bible and examine for yourself. If you think I have misinterpreted the scriptures, you are free to tell me why. I can handle that.

But just because someone is a famous preacher or writer is meaningless. Many famous preachers and writers are heretics.

 

Well then, please educate me.

 

Winman, I am still working out a few very minor details with Calvinism that dont change the major details such as election and initiation by God in His sovereign grace. I highly disagree with you on your approach to Scripture. You seem to not look at Scripture as a whole in its large context and miss minor details that change everything. It is very simple to miss the flow or style of writing that was written in a culture 2,000 years ago. We could sit on here all day and I can give you texts such as Romans 9:11-12 that you will have to justify in some weird way. Instead of just quoting Ephesians 1:13 why not break down Ephesians 1:1-14 where it shows that God elects people according to His will. Your Acts 2 verse is a perfect example of what I have tried to tell you in numerous posts.

you quoted: Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The problem is you left the interpretation to those two verses and forgot the very next verse that shows sovereign grace with the human choice.

Acts:2:39 "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."

This verse does not imply that God calls everyone internally, but that the offer is to all externally (Jews and Gentiles) and those who respond are the ones God has internally called. Those who God internally calls will respond. I clearly showed this in the book of John and will do it again if you want.

The only way to get around this verse is to try and read it differently which isnt being honest. Anyone can twist verses and at times and Im sure we all are guilty of not being honest students.

If you want to grab Romans 9:10-12, Jude 1:4, and Ephesians 1:1-14, we can start there.