1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Add or diminish?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Downsville, Oct 4, 2003.

Top Posters
  1. Downsville

    Downsville New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2003
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    0
    DEUT.4 [1] Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you. [2] Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

    Whats this scripture telling us. Is it relevant for today?
     
    #1 Downsville, Oct 4, 2003
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    God's Word is "relavent for today".

    As Christians we accept it - all 66 books not just 27 of them.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #2 BobRyan, Oct 4, 2003
  3. Downsville

    Downsville New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2003
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    0
    OK Bob
    But Deut. speaks of the land covenant and the keeping of the commandments? Wouldnt that be a bit confusing due to what is taught today?
     
    #3 Downsville, Oct 4, 2003
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    The laws of God addressed the civil order of the Nation of Israel (a unique and specific theocracy). IF that nation were to come into existence today as a theocracy - directly ruled by God - then those civil laws would be in place for THAT nation - not for all other nations.

    Notice in Lev 18 God lists the laws for which non-Hebrew nations would be punished. Sabbath breaking and idolatry are not in the list. The other pagan nations were not held to those standards. Neither can we today punish our citizens for violation of either of those laws.

    Other Laws dealt health for humans. As long as we still have humans - we will need to be healthy.

    Other laws (like the ten commandments) were moral laws - applicable to all mankind.

    The ceremonial laws were shadows as Heb 10 points out - and as Colossians 2 points out. Paul states "Christ our passover has been sacrificed" in 1Cor 5. Those days "observed" by some but by others - since their fulfillment - are now a matter of choice (as Paul states in Romans 14) for those who choose to continue observing those feast-days.

    It unfolds exactly as God intended - and so the OT word and the OT law of God continues to be quoted authorotatively in the NT by the NT authors.

    For example - As Paul notes in Eph 6 - we are obligated to honor our parents - for it is the first commandment with a promise as listed in the 10 commandments.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #4 BobRyan, Oct 4, 2003
  5. Downsville

    Downsville New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2003
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well?
    The reason i asked this question,as to Deut., is so many have come in His name saying we are not under the commandments because of Christ. Yet in revelations the Word says the same thing as Deut.

    REV.22 [12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.[13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.[14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.[15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.[16] I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.[17] And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.[18] For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:[19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

    If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues If any man shall take away from the words of the book, God shall take away his part out of the book of life
    Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city

    The land covenant(enter the gates of the city),the 1000 yr period of rest. If you keep HIS commandments.The same thing that the Word says in Deut.

    HEBREWS 13 [8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

    So ya see, it can be confusing
     
    #5 Downsville, Oct 6, 2003
  6. Briguy

    Briguy <img src =/briguy.gif>

    Joined:
    May 16, 2001
    Messages:
    1,837
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi Guys, no time for detail but we are not under the law and it rules anymore. We don't sacrifice animals, we don't kill our children for being disrespectful, we don't suffer a witch not to live, etc... The law pointed to something and exposed sin, we are past that now. We look a head, lead by Christ and living by and in Grace. IF God however made a promise to the nation of Isreal, His promise will or has come about and is a different matter. Take care, and yes it is confusing.

    In Christ,
    Brian
     
    #6 Briguy, Oct 6, 2003
  7. Downsville

    Downsville New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2003
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi Briguy
    So your sayin that Rev.22 was only meant for the children of Israel(the 12 tribes,of which the tribe of Judah,the jews are one) and only they need keep HIS commandments in order to enter the kingdom. But we as gentiles do not need keep the commandments to enter the kingdom. So there are(according to scripture)2 separate ways to enter the kingdom of God? I thought i read somewhere there was but 1 way. Now im getting confuseder.
     
    #7 Downsville, Oct 6, 2003
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Gal 1:6-11 there is only "ONE Gospel" though some would have it another way. In all ages - faith alone, grace alone, Christ alone.

    One problem - sin - the fall of mankind.

    One solution - Christ - the savior.

    As Hebrews 10 points out - the lambs were NEVER given as a way to get forgiveness of sin. They were simply the form of worship that the born-again converted saints of the OT used pointing forward to Christ. But THEY too had to live by faith. They TOO had to trust in the Messiah. They TOO had to rely on HIS righteousness.

    And in THAT Gospel system - ENOCH went to heaven PRE-CROSS.

    ELIJAH went to heaven - PRE-CROSS.

    Moses AND ELIJAH were together PRE-CROSS.

    All the saints of the OT were saved the SAME way - by grace through faith not of works lest any - ANY - one should boast.

    Instead of TWO gospels (as many hope to find today) there has been only ONE in all of time.

    Deut 4:1-4 is CONSISTENT with that Gospel JUST as Romans 2:11-13 IS ALSO consistent with it. They are in perfect agreement - as is Matt 7:21.

    One Gospel - one solution in all ages. And God's Word is ALWAYS in perfect harmony with His ONE solution to the sin problem.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #8 BobRyan, Oct 6, 2003
  9. Downsville

    Downsville New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2003
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bob
    you wrote
    All the saints of the OT were saved the SAME way -by grace through faith not of works lest any - ANY - one should boast.

    OK, but is scripture below speaking about old testament saints or the new testament saints?

    Rev.14
    [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
     
    #9 Downsville, Oct 7, 2003
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Rev 12 is speaking of NT saints since it follows the resurrection of Christ in the previous verses.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #10 BobRyan, Oct 9, 2003
  11. Abiyah

    Abiyah <img src =/abiyah.gif>

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,194
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why? Are you saying that all those who were
    believers were not believers in Messiah? It appears
    to be parenthetical to me.

    [ October 10, 2003, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: Abiyah ]
     
    #11 Abiyah, Oct 10, 2003
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    In context - the Rev 12 description follows the resurrection of Christ and the focused persecution of the saints by the dragan who is himself thrown down to earth (Christ said I saw Satan fall like lightning).

    Basically this is a focus on the persecution of the NT saints by Pagan Rome and then by Papal Rome. But it is specifically emphasizing the 1260 years of persecution by the Papacy.

    Having said that - my point in the previous two posts was that the SAME method of salvation was being used in BOTH OT and NT and that ALL saints in ALL ages were being saved the SAME way by the SAMe Gospel.

    I think that is what you are driving at above - but I could be wrong.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #12 BobRyan, Oct 10, 2003
  13. Abiyah

    Abiyah <img src =/abiyah.gif>

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,194
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, I read that, Bob. An unusual idea for one not
    Messianic. I have not studied Revelation (red --
    yes; studied -- no), so I wondered about that
    statement.
     
    #13 Abiyah, Oct 11, 2003
  14. Abiyah

    Abiyah <img src =/abiyah.gif>

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,194
    Likes Received:
    0
    red???

    I dislike this keyboard so much. Ssmeday, I am
    going to be online with my real computer.
     
    #14 Abiyah, Oct 11, 2003
  15. faithcontender

    faithcontender New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    0
    As Christ says:

    "I am the way the truth and the life no man cometh to the father but by me".

    And in Acts 4:12

    "Neither is there any salvation in any other, for there is no name given among men under heaven wherby we must be saved". Only through "CHRIST".

    Both the old and new testament testifies of HIM.
     
    #15 faithcontender, Oct 11, 2003
  16. Abiyah

    Abiyah <img src =/abiyah.gif>

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,194
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amein!
     
    #16 Abiyah, Oct 11, 2003
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Loading...