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Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Joseph_Botwinick, Jul 7, 2004.

  1. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Yes, NP, you did. How about you Jim?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  2. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim New Member

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    Joseph, your position is very interesting.

    When someone criticizes Bush and the Republican lawmakers for inaction on abortion, you say that the action is in judicial appointments.

    Then when a (Bush appointed) judge says that he could set aside anti-abortion views to uphold the law impartially as a federal judge, you say that he has to follow the law set by the lawmakers.

    Do you really care about outlawing abortion, or is it just a partisan political tool for you?
     
  3. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington New Member

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    What?

    The nation of Israel ended up in captivity. That does not sound like it was very successful to me.
     
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Terry,

    Theocracy was what God wanted for his people. That is clear. Now, tell me, when did Israel go into captivity (I am assuming that you are talking about the Babylonian exile)?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  5. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Jim,

    Should I take that as a no that you are not happy about Bush appointing a second pro-life judge to the Federal bench? Do you really care about outlawing abortion or is it just a political tool for you to Naderize the vote and elect a true liberal war criminal, John Kerry?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  6. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington New Member

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    Joseph, the Northern Kingdom was deported from the land of Israel in 722BC by the Assyrians. Judah went into captivity in 586BC when the Babylonians conquered them.
     
  7. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Now tell me, when did Israel cease to be a theocracy and become a monarchy.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  8. JGrubbs

    JGrubbs New Member

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    Is Israel today a Theocracy?
     
  9. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    No, they are a Democracy.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  10. JGrubbs

    JGrubbs New Member

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    That is what I thought, just wanted to make sure I was right. thanks! [​IMG]
     
  11. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim New Member

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    Joseph, I didn't see your question before, I simply posted based on an earlier post of yours.

    The answer is that IF this guy is truly pro-life and will act on it, I'm glad he's appointed. We'll see.

    Now, your turn to address the point in my last post.
     
  12. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Joseph, your position is very interesting.

    When someone criticizes Bush and the Republican lawmakers for inaction on abortion, you say that the action is in judicial appointments.

    Then when a (Bush appointed) judge says that he could set aside anti-abortion views to uphold the law impartially as a federal judge, you say that he has to follow the law set by the lawmakers.

    Do you really care about outlawing abortion, or is it just a partisan political tool for you?
    </font>[/QUOTE]I did say the first part. I don't believe I ever said the second part. They must interpret it as they understand the law as legal scholars and judges. This is why the SCOTUS is political, because if you appoint a liberal judge they will more than likely interpret it from liberal POV. If Conservative, then a Conservative POV.

    You are the one who desires to pigeonhole the judges into strictly interpreting the Constitution as the authors intended it to be. My problem with that is, as I have already demonstrated, that the authors themselves were not infallible. There were times when they were wrong. There were times when they compromised important human rights issues for the greater good of the nation. Therefore, interpreting strictly as they would does not equal making the right decision all of the time. This makes the court a political issue: In our Democratic form of government, if we want a judge who will be pro-life, we must elect Bush who will appoint pro-life judges (Pickering and Holmes). But the judges must also be able to be confirmed by the Congress. Therefore, Holmes gave the correct answer in his hearing in saying that he would be impartial in his rulings. You see, America doesn't only beling to us. It belongs to all Americans. That is why we have checks and balances as we do. Now, if Peroutka believes that he can appoint a pro-life judge and have them confirmed by him answering that question in Congress any differently, then he is truly dillusional. And so are you. Tell me, is the goal to get pro-life judges on the bench, or is it to Naderize the vote and get Kerry elected who will appoint pro-death judges to every court in the land, including the Supreme Court. Think about it, Jim. The next president is more than likely going to appoint the next Supreme Court Justice to the bench. Peroutka is not going to be that guy. He will not win the election. Won't even come close. It will either be Bush or Kerry. Bush has already appointed 2 pro-life judges to the federal bench this year alone. Take a look at what Kerry thinks about abortion. Look at his voting record. Then look at the pro-life record of Kerry. Wait a minute. He doesn't have a pro-life record. He votes pro-death every time in the Senate. Now look at Bush's record: PBA, Stem Cells, I think it was Lacy Peterson's Law (which Kerry voted against BTW) which acknowledges the baby as a human life and convicts those who kill the baby in commission of a crime against the mother of murder. Now, Jim, tell me, who are all the pro-death groups lobbying for this year? Bush? Or Kerry? Why is that? Why are pro-death leaders harping on this as an issue to their liberal constituents? Why are they afraid of Bush being re-elected? Because they know that there is more than likely going to be an opening on the Supreme Court in the next four years, and they know Bush's stance and record on the issue. I have more faith in Bush to appoint a pro-life judge than I do in Kerry. I have no doubt that Peroutka would probably appoint a pro-life judge if elected. But, that is totally irrelevant as he has as good a chance of being elected as my lame dog who was shot in the leg by a redneck here in Arkansas has of healing his own leg and being able to walk again on all four leg like a normal dog. It isn't going to happen. So, You gotta ask yourself. Who do you want appointing the next Supreme Court Justice: Kerry or Bush? It is not even a hard decision for me. I pick Bush.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  13. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim New Member

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    Joseph, as to the interpretation of the Constitution, it must beinterpreted as intended, otherwise what we have amounts to a dictatorship by the losers on the Supreme Court. And, that's where we're headed. You are correct that the fouders were not infallible, that's why they included an amendment process. Follow what it says, and if need be amend it. Otherwise, we have no freedom under law.

    You don't have to convince me that Kerry (D - North Vietnam) is bad. OTOH you probably cannot convince me that Bush would not be as bad or worse, since at least the congress would oppose Kerry's leftist policies instead of the rubber stamp that they give to Bush's.
     
  14. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim New Member

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    Joseph, as to the interpretation of the Constitution, it must beinterpreted as intended, otherwise what we have amounts to a dictatorship by the losers on the Supreme Court. And, that's where we're headed. You are correct that the fouders were not infallible, that's why they included an amendment process. Follow what it says, and if need be amend it. Otherwise, we have no freedom under law.

    You don't have to convince me that Kerry (D - North Vietnam) is bad. OTOH you probably cannot convince me that Bush would not be as bad or worse, since at least the congress would oppose Kerry's leftist policies instead of the rubber stamp that they give to Bush's.
     
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Jim,

    I don't think you can honestly make an argument that democracy is a dictatorship. When the majority votes, the majority decides. In a dictatorship, one person decides, such as it was with Hitler and Saddam.

    Big Difference.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  16. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim New Member

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    Joseph,

    You are correct that democracy and dictatorship are two different things. But what we get if we allow the Constitution to be interpreted as any judge wishes, rather than as it was intended, is dictatorship by judges.

    It's the rule of law vs. the rule of man. Rule of law is what makes American government what it is.
     
  17. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    And with your help, John Kerry will be elected and will get to appoint these kind of judges to the federal judiciary. Won't that be grand??? On SCOTUS, there will be 2 to 4 appointees most likely for the next president. Don't you hope that Kerry gets to appoint them??? That is what you are helping right now ...
     
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