After Roe versus Wade is Reversed

I didn't understand your first sentence. I apologize. You were not being sacastic. You were just setting up the pro-abortion propaganda that you intended to spew in the rest of the post.

You seem to assume those who oppose abortion to not care about these women.

More pro-abortion propaganda from you.

Women die from legal abortions. Women are maimed from legal abortions. Women suffer depression because of legal abortions.

I notice you didn't seem to be concerned about those women.

Why did you use the phrase "obtain them safely"? Is there such a thing as a "safe" abortion....for a baby?

You used it as an opportunity to get in a personal attack on Bush. Purely political on your part. Nothing more or less.

Show me anything that I have said that would support this statement.

I am now convinced you were sincerely attempting to promote pro-abortion progaganda. and make political statements, without any hint of sarcasm.

peace to youraying:

 

You were addressing someone else and I took those remarks out because I wanted to throw a few things out here.

I think the reason most abortions are chosen is forconvenience, and the reason women can do this is because abortion is legal, therefore acceptable. Before abortion was legal, it was not the natural reaction to an unexpected pregnancy to think, "Well, I can get an abortion. That is one option." The woman may not have wanted the pregnancy, but she either chose to go ahead and have the child and keep it, or have it adopted out. This is because the law against such abortions restrained women, and the attitude in society was against having abortions for the sake of convenience, although some women could find doctors to do it (the myth of the coat hanger abortion is prevalent - most abortions then were done by doctors).

Not all abortions are pregnancies out of wedlock. Many married women have abortions.

My son's father was the result of a married woman's affair with another man. So he was put up for adoption (in the 50s). If it had been 20 yrs. later, most likely he would have been aborted and my son today would not exist.

Not only that, but I almost chose abortion for my son, but a miraculous intervention by God saved him (I was not a believer at the time). But I would have never contemplated abortion - at least not for more than a short time -- if the laws were the way they were when my son's father was conceived. But it was 1981 and abortion was an easy option.

I knew many women who had abortions -- it was such a common thing and so accepted, and not only that, it's promoted by pro-choice feminists, that one almost feels one is being liberated by having one. This is the general attitude among pro-choice unbelieving women. I know; I was one and was among these women.

It's the lack of moral clarity in the culture, and the ease of having abortions that has given women this "easy way out" of a problem. Although many women suffer afterward and regret it later, at the time, it seems like a simple procedure that will solve their problem, and the culture accepts it.

 

Many years ago, I had a friend who had 2 abortions while in college. Both times she was encouraged to get them by her mother. She never got over it and has hated herself for it ever since. She is still unsaved. :tear:

 

Why does anyone commit murder?

 

Well, I didn't give any statistics so I don't know how I could be off. I just said some married women have abortions, which is true.

I agree that if most abortions were illegal it would reduce the number. But I don't think that will happen because it's too ingrained in our culture as a right.

The reasons are that women are inconvenienced (in school, don't want career interferred with, etc.) or embarrassed (cheated on boyfriend/husband). These reasons will continue, even if abortion was made difficult to obtain.

 

There were several issues which have come up around the OP.

First, the death penalty of Genesis 6 and Romans 13 is for the guilty not the innocent in the womb.

It is entirley consistent for those who believe the Bible to oppose the abortion of the innocent and support the death of the guilty via the government.

In fact in many nations there is a death penalty for becoming a Christian and given enough time that, or at least "hate crime" may come to our own front door and we will have to accept it or at least persecution.

Second concerning botched attempts of self induced abortions if Roe v. Wade is overturned:

Yes perhaps it is cruel to say this, but the wages of sin is death.

However it is God who said it first and that in the NT, not I or any other human being (apart from the inspired writer).

God warns us over and over again that sin has consequences... Is God cruel?

And what about the psyche of the woman who has had an abortion?
Who (especially a young girl) who later in life is wracked with the pain and guilt of having shed innocent blood (which - I assume - is miniscule in relation to the guilt of fornication or adultery).

Yes, God forgives sin but sin has it's consequence even after it is forgiven. Read of David's life even after God forgave him of bloodshed.

I realize that many (maybe most) abortions are "of convenience".

That is, they are the outcome of a legal marriage but the child is unwanted and the reason given is that the birth might cause "psycholgical damage" or financial hardship to the parents and/or the other children in the family, so a sin of the worst kind is offered as an alternative to inconvenience.

HOWEVER in order to defeat that death (or shattering of a life) as a result of trying to solve the outcome of one sin with another and to save an innocent life, there are already myriad abortion alternative organizations ready to receive those who are faced with an unwanted pregnancy such as the Care Net Pregnancy Centers.

Here is the URL of the one that out church supports and they as well as others are nation-wide:

http://www.carenetolympia.org/

So planning for this "problem" is not an issue.

Third: While it is true that there will be those who seek illegal means to end the life of their baby and die in the process if Roe v. Wade is overturned, what about the millions of babies lives saved?

Do a Google and see the statistics: Over 1 million abortions per year are performed in America with approximately 43 million since roe v. Wade.

http://www.abortiontv.com/Misc/AbortionStatistics.htm#United States

Abel's blood cried out to God.

What of the blood of these 43 million babies?

So, yes bring it on!

Reverse Roe v. Wade and save the lives of both mother and baby.

Let the chips and blessings fall where they will.

HankD

 

Sure we should make the world less conducive to murder. Shutting down the abortion mills will go a long way to do that. Why pick on this single form of murder? Why do you not also have a similar concern for all forms of murder?

 

The wages of sin is both physical and spiritual death.
Adam passed that legacy on to us all.

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

You quoted Jesus then you misapplied the verse dear brother...

Look again at what He said.

And my answer is no, I have not recently been angry with my brother without a cause.

This is a debate forum, please don't take it so personally.

My objective is and was to answer your inquiries which I did in good faith within the rules of debate.

You have made the first Ad Hominem by the way.



HankD

 

Not 43 million a year and neither was it sanctioned by the state.

 

Whoops; double post.

 

You're absolutely correct; the blood of the 43 million babies that have been murdered since Roe v. Wade should not be directed at you.

It's the blood of the 4 million--or more--over the next 4 years that should be directed at you, because you voted for and therefore supported a pro-abortion candidate.

 

Keep in mind that even if Roe vs. Wade is overturned, abortion will not stop; the issue will then be decided by each state. I come from South Dakota, a very conservative state; and South Dakota voted down an abortion ban in 2006 and again in 2008.

 

The whole post was a rebutal to your basic premises in the OP.

I did direct it at myself as well as you not as an accusation but a point of shocking fact. \

In addition, in a debate one does not have to refrain from making any statements including an Ad hominen which you did when you accused me of sanctimony.

One point of opinion in this debate where we probably agree with is that we could all do more to pray, to give and inform others of the alternatives to abortion.

Our lethargy does not incur upon us the blood guilt, it remains on the perpetrators, the politicians, doctors and leaders that have put their stamp of approval on abortion.

If I would accuse anyone of the blood guilt of this holocaust of abortion,
I would start with the evil one who hates mankind and craves it's destruction because we are made in the image and likeness of God which he is not.

Secondly if I were to accuse human beings it would be those who are in leadership in science and politics who unwittingly or otherwise do the will of the evil one whom jesus said was "a murderer from the beginning".

Mystery Babylon, the seat of satan, which gives forth the doctrines and philosophy of secular humanism.

a philosopy that teaches we are the chance products of evolution,
there is no God, no right or wrong. There are only those who have the wherewithal to rise to power and make the rules (which are in opposition to the Word of God - a relic of the past coming out of the fear of the unknown).

I know you are not of that system and I never implied that you were.
If I came across to you that way then I am sorry for the misunderstanding because of my lack of clarity.

Yes, I agree and if you go back and read my rebutals to that premise I admitted that there would still be a problem.

However, I thought I had indicated that there would probably be far less abortions and over all deaths than the 43 million aggregate to date of both mothers and their children. Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I should have been. I am sorry for that.

Please notice that I accused you of nothing JustChristian. I understood that you were putting forth a premise and since this is a debate forum I challenged that premise at least in part.

Yes, there would still be a problem. Not anywhere as huge (IMO) and there always will be until He returns.



HankD

 

I disagree. You support and vote for a party and its nominees whose stated purpose is to continue the American Holocaust; the murder of almost 4000 unborn babies each day.

Only 6 million Jews were murdered by Nazi Germany and there is a Holocaust Museum in DC. Where is the Museum for the American Holocaust? In the hearts of those who strongly believe that abortion is murder.

Unfortunately when the patience of God for this country is ended we will all suffer.

 

What is wrong with you people?

Great gravy...what is that?

What ever happened to being charitable and pursuing peace as a Christian to another Christian? Great googly moogly, what an insult. You should be ashamed.

 

OldRegular, you had made a pretty inflammatory statement earlier and must have missed my request so I'll repost it: