Against Homeschooling?

This actually happened in your school? Your public school!? Ha! Never happened in mine! the only thing truly debated in my schools growing up was whether Alabama or Auburn had the better team. I didn't, don't and wouldn't trust our public schools here to truly debate or even discuss more than the proscribed by the school board side of any issue.

No cable! Hmphf! All cable really is is 175 channels of nothing fit to watch. We have it because my husband and his father are tvaholics. The kids and I don't watch (or rather sleep in front of it) nearly as much. Homeschool son does get a bit more time to watch than his sisters, but daytime tv is limited to science shows. Then again, homeschool son is getting a great deal more education than his elder sister did in middle school.

Middle school cirric. here consists of math, english, science, social studies and "enrichment" (four, nine week courses consisting of: home ec, computer, electricity, and art) At home we do the first four plus Bible and a logic course (son is missing logic skills completely). "Enrichment" is taken care of through daily living. He cooks quite well and can follow a recipe almost as well a I can. His computer based cirric. includes the use of common computer programs such as Word and also allows for internet research(links provided). He's fussing for us to install Photoshop on his computer so he can learn to use is using the photos he takes himself with a digital camera. He learned about taking photos in a photography class he took at the local college last fall. Electricity is a planned part of his science cirric though we haven't gotten that far yet. Art? well photography is art and we also do studies on the art of various artists as they come up. The last was Grandma Moses. We've had quite a bit more fun than last year's paper mache penguins done in public school.

It's amazing the amount of material one can cover when homeschooling. He is a non-reader (meaning he can read but hates it with a passion), yet his general knowledge of the world has increased greatly this past year though he has yet to read a work of fiction Public schools here give huge amounts of time to reading books that are most fiction. It's not a bad thing to do, but it doesn't work for children who can't read or won't read. Son's problem is a little of both. He suffers from intractable migraines that in the past have lasted anywhere from 3 days to 3 weeks. How he sees reading: Can't read during a migraine, has other things to do when migraine free.

We cut out the fiction reading and have no trouble getting him to read his assignments (though if he needs it to his computer will read to him). We couldn't do this in public school, where they couldn't even tell me how to get him books on tape from the Library for the Blind and Physically Handicapped.

 

I find it interesting that nobody has mentioned who educated young Jewish boys. Parents did not educate their own kids. It was the rabbis who did.

Education is not just about gaining intellectual knowledge. It is much more about teaching our kids to be doers of the word just like Daniel did in the midst of adversity. We must teach our children to make disciples. I personally think we have so many weak parents in our society who are fruitless when it comes to living out their faith and are unwilling to trust their children to God. They forget that some of the strongest Christians are found in the areas of the world where the adversity is the strongest.

A young lady I knew years ago changed the youth group at her church by starting Bible studies on her high school campus. The youth group grew from about 20 to around 150 in two years.

Anyone know of home schooled kids who are doing that?

Our children must learn to make disciples from us their parents. They will tend to imitate those who they see as Christians. If those who claim to be Christians are not making disciples then they are deluded. According to James 1:22 anyone who is not a doer of the word is deluded. Being a doer is not limited to intellectual knowledge.

One of the greatest witnesses for Christ I know is a man who regularly shares his faith simply because his parents taught him how by doing it in front of him and discipling him. While that man was born he was oxygen deprived for awhile. He was classified as a slow learner. He puts most Christians to shame by how he shares Christ with such boldness and ease.

I cannot even come close to imagining the arrogance of someone who would think they are so well equipped to teach computer programming, organic chemistry, differential equations, physics, biology, genetics, civil engineering, Greek, and Hebrew. Just to name a few.

 

What your kids are seeing in your relationship between you and your husband is very poor. It is not any kind of an example of how a marriage should be. You are their example of how a wife respects or disrespects her husband. Sounds like according to you your husband is watching TV that is unfit to watch and you resent that.

I can just imagine what your husband would think if he would read what you wrote for the public to read. I would never write something like that about my wife. If you are writing it I can also imagine what you must be thinking too and communicating to him. I can also imagine why he spends time watching TV too.

1 Peter 3:1, 2, "In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior."

 

You are quite funny Gb. Just what public high school do you believe is teaching anything on your list except elementary physics and biology(neither high school course is anywhere near the same as what I got in college).

Arrogance? Personally, I believe it is less arrogance than it is the realization that if one has a high school education then one should be able to pass on what they have learned. Public education in this country was mainly started because there were so many parents who were illiterate and couldn't teach their children themselves. Now days this simply isn't the case.

If you are thinking I personally am arrogant for choosing to bypass public middle school, you should know that my background is in engineering and my husband's is computer science. I have, without my completed degree, more math, and science than most teachers out here with a mere "teaching degree". If they didn't major in the course (math, English, biology and so forth) then they haven't gotten a complete education in the field that they are going to be teaching to our children!

My great state of Alabama requires a teaching certificate in 7-12 math to teach math or physics, English to teach english, science to teach biology and such, history to whatever version needs teaching. They do NOT have to have an actual degree in what they are teaching, the certificate covers it and the actual degree is a batchelors of education, not a batchelors of science in biology (or zoology or astrology) or some degree that would infer a real depth of study in any one subject. Yet such teachers are not considered arrogant for teaching high school algebra when their real degree is in physical education! (if you never had a math class taught by a coach, you should come here and try one out)

Arrogance indeed! No, it is more arrogant of you to presume for the rest of us that we are incompetant to teach our own children.

 

LOL! Not only have I written it, but he's knows how I feel (and have felt since before we were married) and has heard me express such many times before and doesn't think me disrespectful. This is simply one of the few ways we differ and differences keep marriages interesting. Ours is going on 21 years now, if you think I could keep my opinion on his tv watching a secret this long, well lets just say that I have short red hair and wear pants too, so your shock should now be complete! Btw, his father knows what I think about his viewing habits too.

And no, it is not what he watches that is the issue. It's that he was raised in a house where the tv was on constantly and this is how he like it here. Disrespectful would be for me to hide the remote! The History Channel and Discovery are rarely "unfit" but that doesn't mean I want to listen to them 24 hours a day. I find the blare of the TV to be less than peaceful. He's not watching anyhow. He's napping. Just like his father does. I'm telling you, it's genetic!

:laugh:

 

If the TV were not around I would doubt you would say it is genetic.

Anyone who spends his life watching TV and sleeping is not leading his family.

Why would you even spend one minute airing your family laundry on a public website. It is gossip about your husband. It does absolutely nothing to edfy or build anyone.

Prov. 10:19-21, "When there are many words, transgression is unavoidable, But he who restrains his lips is wise. The tongue of the righteous is as choice silver, The heart of the wicked is worth little. The lips of the righteous feed many, But fools die for lack of understanding.

Prov. 18:2,4, "2 A fool does not delight in understanding, But only in revealing his own mind. 4 The words of a man's mouth are deep waters; The fountain of wisdom is a bubbling brook.

Prov. 27:15, 16, "A constant dripping on a day of steady rain and a contentious woman are alike; He who would restrain her restrains the wind, And grasps oil with his right hand."

 

Most any college. I just thought I would pop the bubble of those who think their abilities are so great that they could teach their children such things and more.

I guess that you do not read the same writings I read.

The word is spelled nowadays not now days.

Could you show where I allued to the idea that you are arrogant? I think it is more like you are ignorant.

I am almost finished with my dissertation. Initially when I started college I majored in physics and would never think of home scholing my daughter. We send her to school and teach her at home too. For years she has gone visiting with me and knocking on doors. We are stilll discipling her. She has a passion for reaching her peers. She is taking calculus in high school and all kinds of other college prep subjects. The university she decided on offered her the highest scholarship they offer. I tend to think that is because we take our faith seriously. We have also taught her to respect those she may disagree with and yet discuss her points. She is considering being a lawyer and may possibly go into politics. In kindergarten she was writing in paragraphs. I often heard home school parents bad mouth the public schools and talk about how far their kids were ahead of the local public school until one of them told me the story. Then I asked him how far his child was ahead. I realized that my daughter was way ahead of his child who was older. His kids were far behind my daughter and my neighbor's kids. My neighbor was a surgeon and his kids went to the same local public school.

Obviously your state values athletics just like the Television stations and public. When was the last time you said anything about that?

When your state quits paying starting teachers at $24,000 per year then you will get more qualified teachers. There was a time when starting teachers were fortunate to get a job because there were so many teachers. That is not the case now. Years ago I was recognized as having an exemplary program. The state of California came to vist me where I was teaching and developed the state curriculum after my program. I quit teaching because I could hardly afford to pay my rent. At the time my rent was over 1/2 of my pay. So I went into industry and immediately I was able to buy a nice home with an income that put me into a completely higher class. Twenty years later I am teaching at a university and am paid about 1/2 of what I was making in industry. That kind of regard for education tells me a lot about what the public values. Just imagine the amount of money spent on TV athletics and the public says nothing! Even church support such things.

Am I to assume your children will not go to college? If they do, it is doubtful you will be teaching them everything.

I guess you are far more competent than me and I teach at a university. I have over 20 years of direct experience in the field I am teaching. For many years I had my own business and employed students from universities. I am teaching because I want to reach students for Christ and do something to improve education rather than complain. About 1/3 of the department are evangelical Christians. We are able to share our faith with the students and other faculty.

I could tell you many many stories about students and teachers who reached the lost and changed their lives. When I was in a public school another student in one of my classes reached me. Tha was 36 years ago. I am grateful for him following Christ and discipling me. He taught me to share my faith and follow up on new Christians.

My experience in pastoring and a parachurch organization is that the majority of churches are dead by comparison to the parachurch organization I was involved with. The parachurch organization is on college campuses and military bases. I have seen a number of failures among pastors and cannot think of one among those who were in the parachurch organization I was in.

When my daughter went out for track in junior high she came in last place in every meet in her event. One day she told my wife that she was going to quit. I told her that she would have to finish out the season. We talked with the coach about the matter and supported the coach too. When I talked with my daughter I explained that someone must take last place. I also told her that she knows what it is like for other in the classroom to struggle with things she finds easy. Eventually she got better and learned to watch her attitude and live out her faith in the midst of a difficult situation. In the district meet she surprised everyone by taking third place in her event. She saw her attitude and hard work pay off. If we teach our kids to give up then we teach them to be weak and not be strong in times of difficulty and adversity. That is real teaching.

The God of Daniel is the same God I have and I can trust him just as Daniel did.

If your God is small the world seems big. If your God is big the world seems small.

It is not the world which bothers me most, but what I see being taught in churches and homes. I see few men and women who truly lead their children. Sometime ask a few people in your church to share their faith and see how many excuses you get. I have watched deacons shake when I asked them to share their faith. I have seen deacons so afraid that they shook out of fear but then also watched their lives completely change once they got past their fear and trust God.

A few years ago several of us were involved in a local elementary school to tutor those students who needed extra help. The principal went to our church and appreciated the help. With your skills you could be reaching many kids in that same way.

Leaders find ways to lead and make a difference. Followers stand by and complain.

 

gb93433,
Reading your posts has been very frustrating to me. You seem to have concluded that what is best for your children is also best for everyone else. God gave your children to you to raise in the way that he led you, can you not trust that God gave our children to us to raise in they way he has led us and that it is possible that his plan for us may be different from his plan for you?

I do not have a college degree. When I was in high school, like many other young people, I did just enough to graduate, took no books home my last two years of school, and still graduated in the top 1/2 of my class. I have learned right along with my children these past 15 years. I have taught preschool -12th grade from 2 to 4 times each. I don`t claim to be a schollar, in fact, I don´t even claim to be qualified to do this. All I know is that God told us this is what we were to do and we are obeying. Could someone do it better? Probably, but God didn´t call someone else to do it. He called us.

There are days that I feel I am blowing it. There are days that my husband (who has a degree to teach secondary math) struggles with helping our daughter understand her Algebra II assignment. There are days I wonder if our children are missing something critical in their education. There are days I am ready to quit, but I can´t. We keep obeying, even though it would be easier to just send them to public school.

When I have days like this full of doubt and fears I remind myself (you don´t mind if I use your words, do you?)

The God of Daniel is the same God I have and I can trust him just as Daniel did.

If your God is small the world seems big. If your God is big the world seems small


Just as Daniel and his friends thrived on what God told them to eat my children will thrive on the education God has told us to give them. My God is big and that is why I know, with His help, my kids will be just fine.

 

Since you made this debate personal, let me add my two cents worth.

It seems to me that it is you who are the arrogant one. And you seem to think that my wife teaching my preschooler at home somehow takes away from your position and years of teaching at a university?

And your daughter? She wants to be a lawyer or polititian? Does she plan to marry? Or have children? If so?, willl she be a "keeper of the home as the Bible teaches in 2 Titus? Or will your grandkids be dropped off at a daycare everyday, even as babies, so mommy can have her "career"?

My point is this, not everyone holds the same priorities in life that you do. And just because they dont, it doesnt mean that you are so much better or smarter.

AJ

 

Dont anyone take this the wrong way, but most of my high school teachers could have been replaced by most anyone on the street and done just as well.

My father was a high school teacher, and he'd be the first to tell you that teaching aint rocket science.

The classes moved at such a slow speed that almost anyone could have read the material the day before and passed it on to the class. And I took college prep courses. Admittedly, the classes in college finally gave me a challenge, but high school was a joke.

I dont see any problem with any caring parent who has an average IQ taking one of the many homeschool curriculims that are available, and teaching their kids.

It doesnt take a "university teacher" or a "village", it just takes caring, godly parents.

BTW.....Ive been to the village, and I dont want them raising my kids.

AJ

 

That which is learned at home and self-taught are still much better than "public" learning. The problem is the real home environment is disappearing with those who hunger and thirst after righteousness.

Liberal education systems can be blamed for much of the amorality--who allowed it? The bulk of the blame must rest on the fathers who have abdicated their thrones by shirking their responsibilites.

Unregenerated begets unregenerated--that includes the whole human race. Jesus told Nicodemus, a master of Israel, that he must be born again. Nick was probably trained at home and synogogue(public).

Where are those who "seek first the Kingdom of God"?

Selah,

Bro. James

 

The plan is the same for everyone. It is found in Matthew 28:19, 20.

Nobody is perfectly able to educate their children. My daughter is taking classes that I know little or nothing about and I teach at a university.

Of course parents can educate their children in a limited way but to say it is biblical it not historically true. In the OT and NT the rabbis educated children.

How can we expect our kids to be learners if we are not? How can we expect our kids to make disciples if we are not? If we gripe and complain about anything we cannot expect our kids to take it seriously.

Wherever we go, we will hear things that are unacceptable. I have heard baloney from the pulpit from those who do not study. When I was in seminary my daughter came home with some profane words. We knew where she heard them. It was other kids whose parents were students at the seminary.

Education is not just about acquiring intellectual knowledge but about training. We must disciple our children. We must show them how to reach others and share their faith. God has used my daughter to open doors. There have been many times when she has wanted to visit a friend we did not know. So we stopped by the home and got to know the parents.

Year after year people go to churches that are dying and do not make any change in their communities. Yet they would complain about that in a school. The majority of churches in America are plateaued or dying. Yet people continue to attend those churches.

There must be two components for learning to occur. One is the responsibility of the teacher and the other is the responsibility of the student. The proof is in the result. Society and many Christians expect too little from their children. Too many have bought into the idea that school should be fun. School is hard work. Learning is hard work but the result is great and rewarding.

If I see a student who is not doing very well I confront them and offer to help them. I have seen some who get the needed help and do well from that point on. There are others who choose to be lazy and they fail. Sometimes learning occurs when people fail.

 

You "hit the nail on the head."

Too many lazy parents doing nothing to educate and train their children.

 

There is a reason why the Bible says to let not many be teachers. It isn't rocket science. I find teaching to be easy but also hard work if I am to do a good job.

I pray for each of my students and have watched lives change. The one thing teacher must have is love for their students. A teacher who expects a lot will get more complaints from parents and will give himself more work.

 

"BTW.....Ive been to the village, and I dont want them raising my kids."

I don't want the village either. My first day in History 101 at Alexander City Jr. College in Alexander City, AL, my illustrious teacher, Mr. Taunton, said he was a born again believer. Then he proceeded to tell us kids how the Old Testament was a book of fairy tales. Moses didn't really talk to a burning bush. I was stunned. And, this fellow wasn't just presenting an opposing view. He taught it as the truth.

Of course this goes beyond homeschooling, but it illustrates the need for a strong foundation to be laid in the home. I'm not advocating homeschooling over public school. But, I do know this. If we don't prepare our children, in the home, to face the same trash that I faced my first day in college, we are doing them a great disservice. The "village" wants to destroy my children's faith.

 

You Gb, I don't disagree with a lot of what you've said. It does take responsibility of both teacher and student. Huh, seems I used a similar thought in my first post.

Let me clarify a few things for you though:

The fact of my husband's sleeping in front of the tv does not mean he isn't 'leading his family'. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

My husband also teaches at a major university on a master's level program and is the data security director for a major hospital. Big hairy deal. That in itself gives him/us no right whatsoever to tell someone else how to educate their children as you seem to be doing.

You know what they say about one who assumes?

Of course our children aren't learning exclusivly at home. Do you think we keep our children duct taped to their beds? Maybe you should reread the number of things we do in my previous posts.

Well you ought to be ashamed. How dare you send your child into the unknown. How can you protect your child's faith when you have so little knowledge of the ideas that are being presented to her? You think she is able to stand against Satan by herself? Remember, pride goeth before a fall.

Not only do I frequent my children's public schools(though the middle school we no longer attend actively discourages this), I also read through their texts, discuss the material presented to them in class (cause everything presented is not found in the texts) and meet with the teachers regularly. I feel it to be my God given responsibility to know what is being taught to my child. If I don't understand the subject I reseach it and study it until I do.

You my dear do not hold a G. O. D. degree. To hold that it is arrogant of parents to homeschool their children only shows your own narrow mindedness.

Let me quote and bold:

If you didn't mean to imply that homeschooling parents are arrogant, then you should clarify.

Another thing:

So what? Are you implying that only religious figures are qualified to teach our children?

Let's take this further: What did the rabbis teach the children? Whose children were educated? (hint: if you didn't have the gold your kids didn't get taught) Even futher, how many females were educated? You really want to go back to how things were then? This theory of yours that parents never taught their own kids in Bible times doesn't hold water.

Awww how nice. You only found one misspelling in all I wrote? LOL! Who died and made you the Language Cop? Someone else around here holds that title and if he ain't complaining why should you? :laughing:

Last comment: Teacher pay in Alabama is comparable to the national average of teacher pay across the country. Hasn't helped because of the tenure system in the state not allowing for incompetent teachers to be fired. I did a poll on this subject down in the polls forum a few weeks ago. You can do a search for it.

 

There was a time when I lived amidst many who home schooled their kids and I saw many things among them. Often they treated their kids as though the world would suck them up as though they were God to their kids.

Obviously your level of experience is very limited.

My daughter is taking a Spanish class which I am unable to help her. She is taking choir which I know almost nothing about. She has learned to play the piano which I know nothing about.

That is good. Perhaps you should use Vista, CA as an example of change that can happen in the local schools. When I taught high school seldom did anyone show up for a school board meeting. Years ago I pastored a SBC church and we stood against a teacher who was requiring her students to read some rather strange books. Interstingly not one pastor among many would stand with us. The teacher was exposed on the local TV and station and immediately change took place. What does that tell you about the condition of the churches. When the churhc I was pastoring I received several calls and when I told them why the person would often tell me they did not have time or their congregation would not do that.

Some are extremely arrogant and obnoxious. If your family is not reaching people and you are not discipling your children in such a way that they are able to make disciples then how much is your faith worth? If that is the case then your faith is merely intellectual and according to James you are deluded. A faith without works is dead. According to Mt. 4:19 if you are not reaching others then you are not following Christ.

Some of my friends and relatives home school their kids.

At one time my family lived in the midst of several homeschoolers who told us we were essentially sending our daughter to hell by sending her to the public school. When I just ignored them and some things happened amidst there group, some began knocking on my door for help. One of them had a child who was picked up by the police. Another had a child who joined the Mormon Church. One of the young man came to me and told me he resents being home schooled. I worked with that young man to disciple him and reach others. When I met him he was 20 and had never shared his faith. At the time I was pastoring a church and taught the people to go into the community and share their faith. A number of Bible studies were started as a result. During that same time my daughter was in first grade and began sharing her faith with her friends.

Of course not. Some home schoolers use the excuse of home schooling as biblical, which has no historical support in Judaism.

Read the book Education in Ancient Israel : Across the Deadening Silence by James Crenshaw

Were you not complaining about the inadequacy of teachers? It is much like the person who complains about spelling and then misspells a word in their letter.

Poor teachers can be dismisssed for poor performance if the administrators will do their work. Currently, we are looking for a professor and have found three who are qualified. All of them turned us down due to low pay. We were willing to pay them very well for university professors.

When I taught high school my pay was about 1/4 of what I made in industry immediately after I quit teaching high school.

When I first started teaching in 1984 my take home pay was $930 and my rent was $500 for a cheap apartment. It was obvious that I would never be able to buy a home. Today they are having a hard time attracting teachers, police, and doctors.

 

Oh well, I guess my "priesthood of the believer" comments don't apply here. Folks...let God lead other families to do as He leads them. That applies if you are adamantly for homeschooling, or rabidly opposed to it.

Sad, how this has become personal.

 

Home scholing has nothing to do with priesthood of the believer. It has more to do with wisdom.