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"Aionois" Eternal

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Heavenly Pilgrim, May 20, 2007.

  1. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    "Always" used in a relative sense.

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    #21 Lacy Evans, May 20, 2007
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  2. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: It is interesting to note that I was not far off in suggesting as I did the Wescott Hort text as being a major source or error. All three of the translations mentioned, according to what I have gathered, were either based largely on that particular text or utilized it and held it and held it and the work of Wescott and Hort in high esteem.
     
  3. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    "Shall not be quenched" - relative? these fires have ceased to burn long ago

    .
     
    #23 Lacy Evans, May 20, 2007
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  4. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    "everlasting"

    This earth and these hills will pass away.

    .
    Christ is my atonement. This everlasting statute has played out.
     
    #24 Lacy Evans, May 20, 2007
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  5. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    limited infinity?

    Eternally or until he dies? "For ever" is relative in Greek, English, Hebrew, and probably in any other language.


     
    #25 Lacy Evans, May 20, 2007
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  6. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    I do think that contextually, that the word "eternal" can be referring to absolute eternity, but only if the context is the eternal age.


    This is the last day (After the millennial 7th day). This is absolute eternity.

    But "eternal can also refer contextually to the millennial age. Notice these "eternal" promises that are clearly related to reward and not salvation.


     
    #26 Lacy Evans, May 20, 2007
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  7. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    Then you might want to study up a little more.

    Only Rotherham's translation used the W-H at all, and since he started his translation several years before the W-H was available, even that little bit of use of it was limited, and used only for the final edition of the complete translation. Joseph Rotherham, who was thoroughly versed in both Hebrew and Greek, rendered the text as literally as possible, and showed the various shades of meaning with various markings and footnotes. (There are very few things in the W-H that don't belong there; it's quite good, but there is such a rabid hatred of the men themselves that it doesn't matter how good the text is. But, the UBS4 and NA are better, as they've been updated periodically for various reasons, usually when new manuscripts were discovered.)

    The only real shortcoming in the NASB is that it retains some of the text that the KJV used that should not be in there, and they didn't always use brackets to denote such. Although the more recent revisions did correct some of these errors. (Well, it does retain the "thees" and "thous", and some people consider this a shortcoming, but it doesn't bother me.)

    The CLV doesn't use it at all.
     
  8. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    Wickapedia: (NASB)For Greek, Eberhard Nestle's Novum Testamentum Graece was used; the 23rd edition in the 1971 original, and the 26th in the 1995 revision.

    In the Introduction of the Nestle –Alund it states, “Nestle created an outstanding text based on the work of the great textual critics if the nineteeth century. It is well known how he compared the the editions of Tischendorf, Westcott and Hort……adopting agreements of the two for his text………

    HOG, what is apparent to me, is the great influx of new versions developed largely subsequent to the development of the W-H text. I believe the corrupt W-H text is indeed utilized in one degree or another in most new versions. The apparent multitude of omissions is just one clue that one cannot overlook.

    It has been some time since I tried to read concerning the development of the higher criticism employed in the development of many if not all of the versions developed subsequent to the W-H text. I remember that I had listened to a man on the radio concerning translations by the name of David Otis Fuller. He had written several books on the dangers and fallacies of many versions and texts. “Which Bible”, “True or False?” “Countereit or Genuine” are three that I know of. They are excellent books to read. I also have a more scholarly work by Herman C. Hoskier entitled Codex B and its Allies, A Study and Indictment “ in two volumes which goes into much detail of the text and the details surrounding not only the men but the methods employed in critical detail. It is available online I believe.

    Let me ask you what the Codex B is, and ask you if it was utilized in the development of the CLV? What did the Wescott Hort text have in common with it? Is not the CLV based upon the Wescott Hort, or its twin the Codex B, and in fact was clearly used in the development of the CLV? I admit that I might be wrong in this. This whole textual thing is indeed quite confusing to me.

    On the website introducing the CLV and expalining it’s development, it states the following. “This volume of the Concordant Library contains every word and letter of A, B, s, Codex Vaticanus 2066 (046) for the Apocalypse, and some recently discovered fragments of Papyri.”

    With the Codex B and the Westctt Hort text being said to be almost identical, how could one deny that in essence if not in actuality, the W-H was indeed utilized in its development? I am just asking. :)

    I can tell that I for one have become ever more convinced that the KJV is God’s Word to me. Let everyman be assured in their own mind.
     
    #28 Heavenly Pilgrim, May 21, 2007
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  9. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    I will have to break out my book version of the CLV to use. I use the electronic version, and it uses both the NA and the WH. You can choose either one or both for the main text, and compare the variants.

    But, when we know that something was added, why would we want to leave it in?

    I've never found anything in the WH that was added, but there are several things in the KJV that we know for a fact were added.

    Why is it evil to take them back out?

    My wife reminded me of something last night. I've tried to find it, but I don't know if it's in a box here or in storage. But, a Baptist preacher once gave me several commentaries "from a reputable Baptist source" to help "straighten me out".

    One of the things that several of the commentaries said that made me laugh out loud (not necessarily because of the comedic value) was their explanation for "aionios".

    To condense what was said, "'Aionios' means 'age-lasting' which obviously means 'forever' because God didn't have the way to explain 'forever' to ancient peoples."

    I say God was smart enough to use the words at hand to say what he meant, personally, and I don't think he's the author of confusion. The Greek has a way of saying "forever", and it has a way of saying "eternal"; why would God use a word for limited duration to mean either of those?
     
  10. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    BTW, have you ever compared a WH to the NA27? There's a pretty big difference. Saying that the NASB is based on the WH because the original Nestles' was based on the WH is like saying last year's F1 champion car was based on the Edsel because they both have four wheels.

    Just lik the KJV translators, WH expected others to continue their work and update and improve it, which is what has been done throughout the years.

    But, the NASB kept a lot of the KJV passages that don't belong, without even bracketing them, which is one shortcoming when studying literal translations.

    In spite of that, it's the most literal common translation available, but is not as smooth flowing as the ESV.
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    good question.

    I believe "1000 years is exactly 1000 years" as odd as that may sound to some.
     
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    1Cor 15 refers to "His coming" but not the millennial kingdom.

    At His coming all is completed.
     
  13. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: Christ spoke often of His kingdom, and Gods kingdom and gave many illustrations of it. Are you suggesting that His kingdom only exists in the specific time period of a thousand year millennial reign?

    I do not know anything about the contradictions you are speaking about, but I do believe Scripture when it says that His Kingdom endureth for ever, i.e., eternal. There is such a thing as using words in a sense you now. You don’t have to kill the word or change its meaning, or cut out portions of Scripture to use a word in a different sense. You just have to use a bit of common sense.
     
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