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Featured Al Mohler's response to SBC Statement

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by 12strings, Jun 6, 2012.

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  1. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    Ah yes bogus :rolleyes:
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Mandy, False teaching like this has no effect on cals at all. Most cals are just saddened by how weak this statement is.
    You can keep using a broad brush and make accusations but you offer not much to back up your statements.
     
  3. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    [personal attack snipped].

    Mohler is everything that is wrong with the SBC -- a Calvinist fundamentalist. A dim light. No, I take that back -- no light at all.
     
    #23 Michael Wrenn, Jun 7, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2012
  4. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    I did provide some evidence -- his own words, which convict him.

    To say soul freedom is meaningless is to disrespect E.Y. Mullins, one of the most influential Southern Baptists of the 20th century. Soul freedom is one of the bedrock Baptist beliefs and one of the marks that distinguishes Baptists from others. For you to say what you did shows that you are barely Baptist.

    Of course the present fundie dictatorship would not allow Mullins into the building.
     
  5. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    Oh I have been pointing it out for quite some time But your post here is yet another example of the reason for the statement.
     
  6. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    Oh, because I have an opinion? Because I don't like fundie Calvinist gestapo? Not saying all Calvinists are that because I have some good Primitive Baptist friends.
     
  7. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    I deny that anyone who does not believe in priesthood of the believer, Bible freedom, and soul freedom is Baptist. History is on my side.

    It has nothing to do with attitude. It has everything to do with the truth and the facts. I know that makes those uncomfortable who want to deny historic Baptist principles and who want to control others.
     
  8. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    Right. Mohler is despicable.
     
  9. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    "Soul freedom" is a catch all phrase that can mean anything having to do with a person making a decision to follow Christ in baptism, to church membership, to affiliations, and in some areas what constitutes sinful behavior. In that broad dynamic is the Baptist "bedrock" belief of soul freedom.

    The attachment of "Soul freedom" to salvation is misplaced; such is NOT part of the historical Baptist bedrock beliefs; it has been contrived by some in these decades to lift the title into an application that it was never truly considered to be applicable.

    Folks, even Pelagius stated that no human could make a right decision without the direct and purposed work of the grace of God.


    Now if one proclaimed a heretic understood the condition of the unregenerate was so degraded as to limit the "freedom" of choosing right to only be granted by the grace of God, why is it such an anathema to the Arminian folks for Calvinists to view the unregenerate as totally unregenerate?
     
  10. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    You have no idea what that is.
     
  11. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland Active Member

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    I have the highest respect for Dr. Mohler. I think his message would have been more gracious without the pop-shot against the intelligence of those who signed the statement, though.
     
  12. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    Which is common among Calvinists. They just cannot help themselves. And an example of the reason for the statement.
     
  13. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    So I guess you would disavow E.Y. Mullins as being Southern Baptist.
     
  14. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    I know exactly what the historic Baptist principles are. And I know Mohler doesn't hold to them. His statements about the BF&M 2000 are enough to show that, as well as other things.

    According to Field Marshal Mohler, I could not be a Southern Baptist because I refuse to let a man-made creed "speak for me."
     
  15. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    And while I am venting, I'll say that I despise all kinds of fundamentalism -- of the right and the left. They share the same characteristics. They have taken over denominations by the same methods: ignoring and rewriting their denominations' histories. They hate those who disagree with them and will not tolerate dissension. This goes for the fundies who took over the SBC, the Alliance of Baptists, the leftists who have taken over the Episcopal Church, the PCUSA, and the Lutheran Church.

    I loathe them all, and lately I'm not feeling too good about the CBF, either -- once a good moderate and moderate-conservative group.

    It seems this is a day for extremes -- right wing and left wing fundamentalism, with very few moderates anywhere. These extremists show nothing of the spirit and teachings of Jesus.
     
  16. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    1. I will agree partly with Michael here. I think mohler is putting too much power into the BF&M. In reality, Every SBC church and/believer does NOT have to subscribe tot he BF&M. I know several in my own church who don't. they are not any less southern baptists.

    2. I think in a different thread, didn't you somewhat agree that any baptists association or denomiation SHOULD be based on SOME basic common belief set, but that you simply think the BF&M is too narrow, or too specific? For example, would you not say that Baptists should hold to "soul liberty"? Is this not in some ways a "creed" that you believe all baptists should hold to?
     
  17. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    1. I would ask this, If you were wanting to be gracious and yet address a point of concern in a document that (a) you believe states Semi-pelagian beleifs about how the fall affected mankind, (b) was signed by some of your friends? What SHOULD he have written that would be more gracious, yet still address the point of concern?

    2. What Mohler actually said was this:

    (He did not say it, or they, were WORSE than arminian, simply BEYOND.)

    3. When he states that the statements do not reflect their true beliefs, should he have instead said this: "It seems that some of my dear brother do truly hold to the historically Semi-pelagian view of the fall of man, and I fully respect that."
     
  18. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland Active Member

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    What is the point of saying the document "appears" to be semi-Pelagian, a system of doctrine that was condemned as heresy long ago? Either it is or it isn't. What is the point of saying that "most" of the people who signed it didn't even know they were championing what "appears" to be heretical semi-Pelagian doctrine? Where in the document does it deny that God takes the initiative in salvation? Where in the Bible does it deny that man has the freedom either to choose or to reject God when under the conviction of the Holy Spirit? Oh, that's right, Dr. Mohler didn't even quote one phrase that he disagreed with.
     
    #38 jonathan.borland, Jun 7, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2012
  19. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    I agree................
     
  20. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    The BF&M IS our statement of faith.

    All Southern Baptists should ascribe to it or move out.
     
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