1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

alcohol and the Christian

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Michael Edwards, Jan 22, 2003.

  1. Mike McK

    Mike McK New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2001
    Messages:
    6,630
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, Jesus is God.

    However, during His Earthly ministry, He was also a man and submitted to the Father.
     
  2. Abiyah

    Abiyah <img src =/abiyah.gif>

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,194
    Likes Received:
    0
    Since it was brought up that drinking water cannot
    be to the glory of our God, I ask:

    In what world?

    For the believer who recognizes the power of our
    God, His provision, His love, all things we do can
    be done to His glory, and if they are not, they are
    sin.

    For the glory of God, you can:
    </font>
    • Shower</font>
    • Eat</font>
    • Drink</font>
    • Get up in the morning</font>
    • Go to bed at night</font>
    • Go to the bathroom</font>
    • Brush your teeth
      . . . and much more.</font>
    How are these done to the glory of our God? Try
    an experiment. Stop doing them for a month. You
    will then know (if you are alive) how much it
    glorifies our God to do those things He made us to
    do.

    [ January 23, 2003, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: Abiyah ]
     
  3. Michael Edwards

    Michael Edwards New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    Don't be sorry brother. First, what specific question did you ask me brother? I'm not sure. Could you re-ask it please? Also, I hope that my answers in the future would reflect better on my maturity in Christ.

    Thanks
    Michael
     
  4. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ya know, you could replace the word "alcohol" with "King James Version" and it seems that the same empty fire burns just as hot.
     
  5. donnA

    donnA Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    But you can't actually say there was any benefit to him. I said tell me when it was prescribed as a cure.

    Again what is it supose to cure? He only 'thinks', but has no real idea from medical research, is that why he only 'thnks', and isn't sure.
    Why would somoene want o follow the world and od whats wrong just becasue the world says you should, they 'think' you might bebefit from it.

    I'd like to know just how does God recieve glory when an unsaved person sees you a christian drinking alchol? How is he supose to see anything different from you and him? How is he supose to see that knowing Jesus made any difference in your life if your sitting there drinking the samething he is. Your witness to that person has been destroyed. And destroyed with any person you may witness too who knows you drink. Whens the last time you witnessed to a person about their need of Jesus with a drink in your hand? Show any scripture witha drink in your hand? If there is nothing wrong with alchol then why don't you serve it to you children? If it's good for your health, then even better for theirs, after all you atart out early for them and they recieve the benefits earlier in life then you,, might live to be 150.
     
  6. Michael Edwards

    Michael Edwards New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  7. JIMNSC

    JIMNSC New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    0
    Michael - If you're ever in New Jersey be sure to take Mike McK out for a beer. While you two discuss how okay drinking is, ask yourselves my original question, which was, "tell me how drinking alcohol glorifies God." Remember, I asked you to "ask yourselves," you don't owe me an explanation. Shame Ben Franklin won't join you and Mike but maybe he'll meet you later. ;)
     
  8. Michael Edwards

    Michael Edwards New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    JIM: Hopefully your sarcasm is in good humor. I, again, apologize if the way I've answered questions has come across the wrong way. Truly sorry.

    And I thought I answered that in a good way. I could ask, "Tell me how putting on underwear glorifies God." The point is that our relationship with God is what is the priority. Paul said all things were lawful but all things weren't beneficial (expedient for the KJV fans). I think we have a tremendous amount of "freedom" to do a variety of things while being "In Christ." Not everything we COULD do or are ALLOWED to do is beneficial for us or even those around us.

    So, in short, I can answer that question as simply as you can answer the question if you replace beer with anything else, right? Do you understand what I'm getting at or no?

    Thanks
     
  9. JIMNSC

    JIMNSC New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    0
    By the way, Michael, I notice your member number does not match the new number of posts you have made. What happened? Didn't do too well on this or some other subject before so you dropped back and punted... er, I mean changed your screen name?

    Your number tells me you couldn't have missed this very subject having been debated before. Next time you change your name - "Slick Willie" sounds like a good fit. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    See ya, Slick. I'm done on this one.
     
  10. JIMNSC

    JIMNSC New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sure [​IMG]

    Yes, I'm sure you can - but - you didn't. [​IMG]
     
  11. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    1
    JIMNSC said:\

    Tell us how you can drink alcohol to the glory of God.

    Wine is a gift of God, given for the sustenance of man. Psa. 104:15 reads that "wine . . . makes glad the heart of man." Benjamin Franklin was exactly right when he said that beer was proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

    But not only is wine given by God for man's happiness, but the psalmist lists it alongside many basic necessities given by a loving and gracious God, for the benefit of his creatures: fodder for the cattle, trees and rocks for the animals to live in, vegetables and bread for men to eat, and oil for men's cosmetic needs.

    How do we drink to the glory of God? We recognize wine for what the Bible says it truly is: a blessing, given to us by a gracious and loving God, for our sustenance and happiness. We drink to the glory of God when we receive it with thanksgiving, and when we enjoy it in the way it was intended.
     
  12. Abiyah

    Abiyah <img src =/abiyah.gif>

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,194
    Likes Received:
    0
    Michael Edwards --

    I see in you a real effort to not be an offense to
    those who oppose you here. Thank you.

    I accidentally did a double post on the bottom of
    the previous page, then used it to write an answer
    you may have missed. Yes, I can wear
    underwear for the glory of our God. 8oD

    Someone asked how drinking alcohol glorifies
    our God. Another answered that when our Lord
    drank wine, He was our God, so it did not glorify
    our God. Another returned that He was, at that
    time, in human flesh.

    I am not a proponent of thoughtless drinking, as
    any here who have read my posts know. However,
    truth must always take precidence over both
    opionion and logic.

    What was our Lord doing in that final seder when
    He lifted the cup of wine and blessed the Father
    for the fruit of the vine, took a drink, and watched
    as His disciples took their drinks? What did He
    mean when He lifted that last cup and said that
    they should drink it, but He would not drink again
    until He was with them in eternity? What was His
    intention when He told them to continue doing
    the seders when He was gone from them?

    It is not the wine itself that is sinful; it is the
    person's sinful actions that are the problem.

    I must also add, for the sake of honesty as well,
    that their wine was not the same as the stronger
    wines of today. In the seder today, as has been
    done for years, many add hot water to the wine,
    which not only weakens it but also makes the
    wine slightly warm.

    "This is my blood . . . ."
     
  13. Michael Edwards

    Michael Edwards New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jim:

    I think that your humor crossed the line on this one and became a personal offense. The reason, since your question is public, so will my answer be, that it doesn't "match," whatever that means. Is that I changed my screen name a LONG time ago and I haven't even been online much since I returned from Costa Rica in June of 2002, from our missions work there. So, my apologies that I haven't spent as much time on the internet as you feel I should have in order to avoid the name "slick willy (ie)."

    I'm not sure why you would want to take a discussion and turn it into a personal attack. It does hurt though.
     
  14. JIMNSC

    JIMNSC New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sorry brother.
     
  15. Michael Edwards

    Michael Edwards New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    forgiven. thanks.
     
  16. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    9,511
    Likes Received:
    649
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Again what is it supose to cure?</font>[/QUOTE]It is preventive medicine... like a healthy diet. I could turn the question around for you -- "What's a healthy diet supposed to cure?" I trust that you see the error of your logic.

    Oh? Have you been talking to my doctor? :rolleyes:

    There is quite a bit of medical evidence that indicates that very moderate alcohol consumption (a drink every other day) has significant health benefits.

    As far as what my doctor "thinks", he "thinks" that surgery will be the best option for my gallbladder trouble. Should I just ignore what he "thinks" and hope my gallbladder doesn't burst in the next couple of years? (I know someone who did just that and she nearly died. She survived, but the experience damaged her health so much she had to live in a nursing home for the rest of her life.)

    Medical science is not exact and doctors have to use their best judgment. But if you are going to make me choose between what you "think" and what my doctor "thinks", I'll have to go with the one who went to medical school and has 22 years of experience practicing medicine.

    Not following the world.

    Since when has it been established that drinking alcohol is always wrong?

    1.) Jesus made wine. (used as a beverage)

    2.) Jesus drank wine. (used as a beverage)

    3.) Paul suggested that Timothy have some wine for his stomach's sake. (used as medicine)

    Your position is way out of line with the New Testament. I realize you are trying to uphold the temperance position, but you're eventually going to have to face facts that the traditional temperance position is not biblical.

    Actually my doctor is the one who recommended it. :rolleyes:

    The glory comes from a Christian demonstrating the proper moderate use of alcohol.

    By what I say and do. Moderate drinking does not contradict what I believe the scripture teaches, so I am not being hypocritical. I think everyone I know understands that I am a follower of Christ. Your argument sounds quite a bit like the arguments of the Pharisees who condemned Jesus for eating and drinking with sinners.

    I certainly hope you believe that Jesus makes more of a difference in someone's life than changing a drink order... (For the record, I did not drink before I became a Christian.) To turn your question around, if both of us are drinking lemonade, how does he know that Jesus made any difference in my life? (Your question assumes that moderate alcohol usage is inherently sinful.)

    The difference that Christ makes has to do with a transformation of character and a connection with God. If you really want to know specifics, I can give them to you.

    Uh, no... My witness to legalists (demonstrating that I am not a legalist) is likely destroyed, but not to unbelievers at large. I think there is more of a danger of damaging your witness when that church group goes to the all-you-can-eat pizza buffet and commits gluttony, yet many church groups do it every week.

    I don't drink very often, so it is somewhat rare. But I did talk to someone about faith issues at the office Christmas party last month when I was nursing a half-glass of white wine.

    You caught me there. I didn't have my Bible with me that evening (although I did quote some scripture).

    I do not currently have children. But if and when we do, we will model responsible drinking for our children. I would not be opposed to my future children having a small glass of wine in my home with an evening meal when they hit their mid-teenage years.

    The health benefits are for those who are beginning to face symptoms associated with aging. (I know you are being sarcastic, by the way.) To give it to young children outside of treatment for a specific medical condition would not be prudent.

    (Edited to fix a few typos and add a sentence for the sake of clarification.)

    [ January 23, 2003, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: Baptist Believer ]
     
  17. SAVED4LIFE

    SAVED4LIFE New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2001
    Messages:
    434
    Likes Received:
    0
    As a former heavy drinker, I have to totally disagree that drinking alcohol is a disease. It's a choice.....just as smoking, doing drugs, etc. Cancer is a disease, but drinking too much, getting drunk, acting stupid and doing stupid things as a result is simply poor judgement. My opinion, of course. :D

    P.S. Also, what better excuse does a drunk have than to say he/she can't "help it" cause he/she has a disease? Or to say when they get trashed after "quitting" that the "disease relapsed". Sorry, I'm not trying to be offensive, but I just don't buy the disease concept. If drinking too much is a disease caused genetically, then so is smoking, gluttoney, and the list goes on and on.
     
  18. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    As a former heavy drinker, I have to totally disagree that drinking alcohol is a disease.

    Drinking Alcohol is not a disease. However, there is a disease called alcoholism, that is very real. But how much you drink/don't drink has no bearing on whether or not you're an alcoholic.
     
  19. Mike McK

    Mike McK New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2001
    Messages:
    6,630
    Likes Received:
    0
    First of all, Michael, yes, come on over and we'll go over to the Whaler's Cove and watch the sunset on the beach over a cold Corona.

    Second, why do you have to "do" something to glorify God? To me, that smacks of legalism. Why can't we just glorify Him by waking in the grace He's provided?

    As for Ben Franklin, My home in Mt.Ephraim is about two minutes from Olde City, Philadelphia and Ben has been seen there quite frequently.

    [ January 23, 2003, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: Mike McK ]
     
  20. SAVED4LIFE

    SAVED4LIFE New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2001
    Messages:
    434
    Likes Received:
    0
    Johnv,

    I respect your opinion, but I still have to disagree. I know "alcoholism" is a very real and personal issue with people, and I in no way intended to offend those who feel alcohilism is in fact, a disease.
     
Loading...