Alcohol

On the contrary, I very rarely consume alcohol. The last time I did was a glass of white wine at Easter dinner.

Nope. Neither have I ever been drunk.

 

I disagree Baptist4life.

You can in terms of an addiction with a resultant untimely death due to the issues of obesity.

The current statistic is that 2/3 of Americans are at least over-weight, many obese and some morbidly obese.

There is (for the great majority) only one way to become overweight and/or obese. Eating too much, scripturally know as gluttony.

And why is it that the worst sins are the ones that we ourselves don't commit?

Alcohol, sugar, salt, fat - in and of themselves are not evil or unclean and the consumption of these things are not evil:

Mark 7

18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;​

However, if you consider something unclean then you MUST leave it alone:

Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.​

The real problem is the heart.

The real question is why does a brother/sister have an addictive personality with lack of self-control? Whether demonstrated by the consumption of a six pack of beer or a dozen Bon-Bons at a sitting.​

Can not the Lord provide satisfaction and contentment without "mind alteration" which both the drunk and the glutton think they need to feel contentment.​

This situation should grieve us at our heart and evoke sorrow for our brother/sister who is sick and not evoke a legalistic condemnation which in itself indicates another problem. ​

Also, rather than condemn those who have self control and exercise their liberty (and perhaps they shouldn't for the sake of the babes in Christ), we need to try to understand the real problem of those who go overboard into drunkeness and gluttony and minister to their need (a deeper and mature relationship with Jesus Christ).​

Yes, there is a time and a season to rebuke and yes even separate, but that should come only as a last resort. Also there is a scriptural warning to the one doing the rebuking/restoring. The motive must be pure.​

Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.​

HankD

 

Neither can you compare simple consumption of an alcoholic beverage with drunkenness. Scripture permits consumption of alcoholic beverages, but does not permit drunkenness. Therefore, Christians are permitted the scriptural liberty to consume alcoholic beverages if they wish, so long as they do not engage in drunkenness. Additionally, Christians are to permit others the scriptural liberty to consume alcoholic beverages, but should admonish Christians from drunkenness.

Scripture discerns between the two, yet so mnay Chrostians lack this discernment.

 

ANd you are never going to convince me that raw, ungrilled burgers are a good thing either

 

Baptist4life,

Here's a discussion on the subject with an interesting experiment performed by a former member, StandingfirminChrist. He read up on wine-making procedures of the First Century and successfully made unfermented wine that would keep for long, long time.

It's a huge thread because of the cavils of the ignorant, but there is some excellent, factual info in there.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=43784

Here's another:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=47490

 

I'll debate the "factualness" in there. He is also the same one that said alcohol has frozen in his freezer, you can store fresh fruit in pottery underground for 100 years and it will still be fresh, and him eating 15 hot dogs in one sitting is not gluttony.

 

I don't argue the RULES as laid out by God's word... but I am keenly aware of the fact that as Christians we are constantly being kept under surveillance by those of the world. They're constantly looking for ways to point at us and say "Hypocrite! and drag the church down a peg or two."

There are all kinds of sins out there that we can argue over, but in the end it doesn't matter, since those sins are not going to keep US from the glory of being together with Christ in eternity, but those sins JUST MAY keep someone ELSE from seeing us as a Christian and keep them from asking 'What have they got that I don't have?'

Like it or not, we are CONSTANTLY sharing our faith in Christ with the world and we're not put here to serve ourselves, but to proclaim the grace of Jesus Christ!

So in the end, it doesn't matter if we proclaim it to be a sin or not, it's what that innocent child sees or your neighbor, or a stranger stopping that sees you in a local tavern who's then turned away from church because he sees you in a local service standing and praying as a leader of your church.

Avoid the very appearance of evil, for we are under constant scrutiny. I would say the litmus test here is...

Will drinking this one little drink glorify Christ and draw OTHERS to him?

Be ever on-guard, for your sins (or what others CONSIDER sins) will find you out.

:godisgood:

tw

 

Imagine the utter turmoil I would feel on the day of Christ's return when I realize that the stranger I shared a drink with during a layover at an airport was actually searching for the Lord that day and instead of being sharp and taking note that I could have shared Christ's promise with him, I was drinking with him instead.

Does the idea of holding a shot of whiskey in one hand and the bible feel wrong to you? How about holding a shot of whiskey while you share the word of God with a stranger? Would they take you seriously?

 

What if there was a man in the airport bar that you should have shared the Gospel with, and based on the manmade "sin" that alcohol is sinful, you missed it?

Why would that idea feel wrong? I've had an opportunity to share the Gospel with a neighbor at a cookout over a beer.

 

We discourage it, but we also understand that it's a liberty issue.

For me, personally, I believe it would be extremely unwise. I do like the occasional beer, but I'm in a position of leadership in the church and could cause a weaker brother to stumble so it's just better that I don't.

 

There is a huge difference with overeating and alcohol consumption! One is much more in danger from someone drinking than someone eating too much in 3 ways:

1. Injuries an death from accidents caused by a driver who has been drinking (and the driver does not have to be drunk!)

2. Rape is often connected to drunkenness (by one or both parties)

3. Domestic violence

So let's get off the red herring of overeating. The danger to others and to self is far worse with drinking.

 

His claim was that alcohol will not freeze in conventional freezers. One can read the thread to get the facts . . .

His argument that unfermented juice can be preserved in pottery underground, not "fresh fruit." Again, one can read the thread.

Either way, it's evident that your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired. I have some old third-grade homeschool materials, do you need me to send some your way?

 

Yes, one can read the thread, and since it WAS I who said that alcohol will NOT freeze in a conventional freezer, I would suggest taking your own advice.
It was also said "fresh fruit", not juice, btw. Spend some time on the 40+ pages

 

I did. Why don't you link us to the posts? Because you didn't.

 

Missing an opportunity to witness because I don't drink or fraternize with folk in taverns? That just rings of desperation to cling to a worldly view rather than trying to set ourselves apart from the world.

As a whole, the church would be crucified by the worldly media for being hypocrites if we all started witnessing with a beer in our hand. We should strive to avoid all appearance of sin. Someone can see you drinking a beer and be put off of the gospel, but I fail to see how someone could be put off the gospel by your not drinking.

It's simple logic. If you want someone to join your health spa, you don't send out a portly, middle-aged man eating a candy bar and drinking a soda to round up new clients, you send out the most-fit, healthiest-looking people you can. Look at all the television commercials for exercise equipment.

 

You must also believe Jesus did the same...because that is EXACTLY what He did. Would you call Jesus "worldly"?

Since Scripture is crystal clear drinking is not sin, how can you deem something sin that God hasn't? That is modern day phariseeism.

Using this logic (if you can call it that), Benny Hinn and the clowns on TBN are God's spokespeople to the world

 

I never realized SFIC's words are pure truth. I don't have the time to waste on 44 pages...do your own homework. Goodbye... :wavey:

 

I witnessed to someone over steak and lobster and a glass of Sutter Home white zinfandel. She got baptised two weeks later, and has been a commited follower of Christ ever since. The alcohol wasn't a bad witness or stumbling block at all.

 

Jesus drank and fraternized with folk in taverns? Why, I must have missed that in the Book of Webdog.