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Alcohol

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Baptist4life, Sep 20, 2009.

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  1. 1. I see no problem with alcohol

    7 vote(s)
    11.3%
  2. 2. Alcohol is OK, just know your limit

    21 vote(s)
    33.9%
  3. 3. I like a drink now and then

    6 vote(s)
    9.7%
  4. 4. I don't think a Christian should drink outside their home

    3 vote(s)
    4.8%
  5. 5. I don't believe a Christian should drink alcohol

    23 vote(s)
    37.1%
  6. 6. Drinking alcohol is a sin

    2 vote(s)
    3.2%
  1. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    You lost me...what is your objection exactly with "taverns", then?
     
  2. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    I think it is safe to say that taverns or bars are places that are utilized by many to consume alcohol to excess.
     
  3. Twizzler

    Twizzler Member

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    It's black and white to me and I understand and respect that it may not be for others here. A simple question can be asked of those consuming alcohol... 'What good is it doing you?' I would argue that in the BEST of circumstances it's doing you NO good, while in the WORST of circumstances it's drawing you down a road of alcoholism and is a severe detriment to your testimony, as I've said before. Nobody will ever convince me that they're drinking a Budweiser to the glory of God.

    Take into account the times of the New Testament too, all of you that wish to partake of the grape. Wines were much, much weaker than those we have today and quite often were the only means of taking on liquids without becoming sick from tainted water. Not so today in our advanced world.

    Comparing drinking to eating is moot as well, though over-eating is a sin, sitting down to a healthful meal is not and in no way, shape or form be compared to drinking. We eat to live, to fuel our body. We drink alcohol simply to take part in worldly pleasures and to 'feel' good. Yeah, yeah... for some eating a candybar would be a sin too, especially if they weigh 500 pounds, I get it. It does NOTHING to further the kingdom of God and at worst will drive the lost even further away from the Lord when they watch us Christians imbibing.

    I understand the previous poster sharing a glass of wine with a friend over dinner and speaking of the Lord. Do you contribute their conversion to the Lord directly to the glass of wine? No, I don't see how you can. The person you were speaking with was totally unaware of the possibility that imbibing may possibly be considered a sin because they are so worldly. I can't think of any type of scenario that you drinking water instead of wine would have led to the other person being offended by your water drinking and you losing the chance to witness to them, unless, of course you said something like, 'Oh you heathen! Drinking liquor! I can't possibly even talk to you because you're drinking liquor, I'll just have my precious, Jesus-blessed, all is good with the soul, water while you damn yourself.' That's just silly.

    It's like my dad used to say about staying out after midnight, 'Nothing GOOD ever happens after midnight.' The same is true of alcohol, 'Nothing GOOD ever came of it.'

    Maybe I'm being too critical here... maybe we should get everyone snockered up and then they'll be much more receptive to hearing the gospel and we can talk them into accepting Christ as their savior while they're under the influence and get them baptized while they're drunk. They'd be a lot more compliant, I'll bet!
     
  4. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    The best of circumstances, it helps to fight disease in a person or can help them medicinally, since there is alcohol in many medicines. I know someone who was prescribed by her doctor to drink a half of a wine cooler since it seemed to help her pain better than pain meds. I personally was told by a doctor to drink a beer for a medical condition I had.

    But that's not a reason to not partake. Yes, wines were most likely weaker but not so weak that Noah and others couldn't get drunk on them. So the alcohol was not THAT minimal.

    Why not? If we overeat, we sin. If we over drink, we sin.

    No - it has nothing to do with "feel" good but "taste" good, just as I ate my stir-fry last night because it tasted good rather than eating overcooked liver. Both would nourish me but I prefer one just because it tastes better.

    I challenge you to walk up to any unbeliever and ask them if they would turn away from God if they saw a Christian drinking a glass of wine. My husband and I have had drinks in the past in front of believers and unbelievers and we've had some of those unbelievers even come to know Jesus because they knew that Jesus didn't cause one to be a hypocrite or "holier than thou". Alcohol has not prevented one from coming to know Jesus. Now if we had been drunk.....

    They are unaware of the possibility of imbibing may possibly be considered a sin because it cannot be. Scripture doesn't say it and thus it is not a sin except to the one who has decided in his heart that it's a sin. But that doesn't make it universal.

    But what about the culture of the person sitting there? It is may be offensive to some to be made to feel guilty for having a glass of wine. What kind of testimony is that?

    That's untrue. Health benefits are clear. After midnight? I do think my husband proposed after midnight. We have also shared Christ after midnight. :D

    So you're going to extremes. Going from drinking alcohol in moderation (which is allowed in Scripture) to drunkeness is ridiculous. Why not say "Well, since you say "relations" are fine, why not just go out and sleep with everyone in the neighborhood?" Argue from truth and maybe someone will take you seriously.
     
  5. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Uh, for those keeping score, wines were not weaker in the days of the OT or NT. Wine ferments naturally, and the fermentation process continues until the alcohol content is at approximately 12-14% (at that point, the yeast is no longer able to metabolize the sugars). Alcohol content was about the same then as it is now.
     
  6. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    ...and restaurants are used by many to consume food to excess (gluttony). I have no problem eating wings and having a couple beers in a sports bar, nor do I believe the majority of those in there are there to get drunk.
     
  7. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    This is the bottom line for me, and why I do not generally get in alcohol threads, is that it changes no one's mind, and produces nothing. I do not drink, for many reasons that go beyond Scripture opinion. It is none of my business who drinks, who does not drink, or why. That is between them and the Lord. By the same token, it is no one else's business what I do or do not do about it. It seems like lots of people like to polk their long nose into other's business, and it is a good way to get it chopped off.
     
  8. Twizzler

    Twizzler Member

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    Sarcasm-
    Sarcasm is a cutting form of wit and should be used with care. To be funny the audience should not have much sympathy for the intended target. If they do it will not work in your favor.

    You obviously have sympathy for alcohol. LOL. It wasn't meant to be taken seriously, Ann. If it came across that way, I apologize. It was merely a sarcastic joke.
     
  9. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Good news! My wife just called and asked if I could join her at a local romantic Italian restaurant for a nice dinner and a glass of wine.

    Since scripture permits me to consume food and wine. I'm off. You guys can argue the matter all you want. I'd rather spend the time having a quiet romantic evening with the Mrs.
     
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    I usually stay out of this as well s/n.

    Marcia mentioned red herrings, actually the real issue is the heart (non-material) not the physical stomach.

    Nothing we consume can defile us.

    The person who has an addictive personality has a problem with their desires and the inability to be content with moderation in all things. I certainly know where of I speak, I've been there.

    The addictive personality will latch on to whatever it can draw satisfaction from be it alcohol, tobacco, food, candy, whatever.

    To be sure, overindulgence in alcohol is probably the quickest way to the grave.

    My problem was ice cream.

    However, there is a very real reason for abstinence from alcohol which is the reason I have practiced abstinence after my departure from the Church of Rome.

    Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God.​

    HankD​
     
    #110 HankD, Sep 23, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2009
  11. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    And I do NOT have blonde roots!!

    Sorry. :thumbsup: I was going between "encouraging" my son to do his math and this thread. I guess I can't multitask. ROTFL.
     
  12. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    I'm JEALOUS!!!!! I had to cook tonight! :(
     
  13. Twizzler

    Twizzler Member

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    To get back on topic... you can talk until you're blue in the face, Ann. Arguing that drinking liquor glorifies Christ seems like a dangerous precipice on which to stand and doesn't make sense to me one little bit.

    Arguing that alcohol is good for you because it's in some medicines and/or because your doctor prescribed a half-bottle of a wine cooler is picking nits. The pain relief you would get from a half-bottle of a wine-cooler could just as easily be gotten from another form of medicine.

    My mother-in-law turned COMPLETELY away from Christianity for the very reason that you challenged me on, Ann. When she was younger she saw a deacon from her church drinking a simple beer and she STILL talks about how wicked and two-faced those baptists are.

    Convince yourself all you like that there's no harm in it... someone, somewhere is watching and most likely will come away with a poorer view of Christians throughout the world. We're fighting a world-wide battle against the liberal press to keep from being called hypocrites and you're just helping to feed the fire.

    Smoking cigarettes is legal too... do you suppose that glorifies Christ?
     
  14. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Yes, that is true, but one must eat to live. One does not need to drink alcohol to live, so I put these in separate categories.

    I have yet to state drinking is a sin; I am merely pointing out the multitude of problems with it in our culture today. In a culture where drinking wine is the norm the atmosphere is very different than a culture such as ours where drinking tends to represent partying or carousing (I realize many drink wine with a meal, but the more popular linkage to alcohol here is to negative behavior). Cultural context does count.

    Also, is it or is it not true that they drank wine then because the water was bad and alcohol killed the germs (or whatever)?
     
  15. Twizzler

    Twizzler Member

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    I'll concede this point, JohnV. I'd always been taught that wines were a much watered-down version of what we have today, but after a little googling it looks like you're right.

    -tw
     
  16. Twizzler

    Twizzler Member

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    Would you feel uncomfortable with your pastor eating with you as you drank your wine?
     
  17. Twizzler

    Twizzler Member

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    I'm on the same page as Marcia here, I believe... I don't think that I've come right out and SAID that drinking is a sin either. I think it's a poor testimony though, for sure.
     
  18. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Correct on all points Marcia except that wine has been shown to be a natural inhibitor of blood serum cholesterol and cleanses vascular plaque.

    For many prone to atherosclerosis (but not ateriosclerosis), a glass of natural red wine (conscience allowing) with a meal (especially a meat meal) would be beneficial to one's health, howbeit not a necessity to life. It was a natural medicine in Jesus day as it is now.

    Then again ice cream is a modern food that is not a necessity of life and pretty bad on one's health if overdone with the combination of sugar and animal fat.

    And yes, wine and strong drink were used because folks believed that these substances drove the "evil spirits" from the water (hence the name "spirits") without knowing the scientific reason.

    Apparently the Semites knew of the process of the distillation of alcohol. It was called "strong drink" Hebrew - "shekar" (distilled alcohol) as opposed to "yayin" (wine).

    It was easier to carry the smaller amount of "shekar" and add it to the local drinking water than to carry around several gallons of wine on a trip.

    It was also much easier to get drunk by drinking "shekar" than "yayin".


    HankD
     
  19. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    Well, after reading through all these posts I'm amazed. I'm 58 years old and I've been attending Baptist churches all my life, and I have NEVER heard anyone who thought it was "OK" for a Christian to drink alcohol. That's a whole lot of Christians over 58 years! Not one thought alcohol was God honoring or something to be associated with. I agree with them.
     
  20. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    This seems to be the problem with modern day christians, baptists in particular...they don't let Scripture dictate what is sin or not, permissible or not, etc....they let the preacher do that for them. I used to be one of them until I looked up the 244 references in Scripture dealing with wine or "other strong drink". I would suggest you (singular and plural) do the same...might be surprised what you learn!
     
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