Alcohol

You may be correct, but I don't think you can prove from Scripture that "yayin" is watered down wine just as I can't prove that "shekar" is distilled fermented grain or fruit juice.

I don't remember the source and I don't think it's worthy of further research but in the area of Canaan, grain was stored in what we now call silos (in Hebrew a "goren" and koine an "apothekay").

Grain storage in this manner can result in solar distillation or intense atmospheric heat distillation just as it does today without the use of refraction or a still.

The Scripture is clear that "yayin" and "shekar" are not the same but distinct entities.

Shekar certainly seems stronger than yayin but I don't find any evidence (apart from hearsay) that "yayin" is watered down wine.

That is not to say that water was not added to wine on some occasions.

"spirits": Of course this kind of use was a superstition.

As for the word "spirit" being used in the Scripture:
Mark 6:49 But when they saw him walking upon the sea, they supposed it had been a spirit, and cried out:

Luke 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.​

or an evil spirit :Luke 4:33 And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice,

Not only that there were substances of much higher toxicity in Jesus day and even long before His sojourn here on planet earth, drugs which were derived from plants and mushrooms which the canaanites used as well as Hebrews who cared not to be pure from these things. Kykeon is an example.

Most medicines (one of which is alcohol) are good.
Anyone who has been to a dentist and had their teeth numbed have had a dose of a cocain derivitive.

There is however abuse of these substances as well.
Much of which could be as a result of the drug manufacturers propoganda.

A doctor's prescription does not outweigh Scripture.
These toxic substances are good when they are used to save life, however many people (Christians included) become addicted to drugs via their doctor.

Christians seem quite willing to partake of these toxic substances which are refinements of these ancient drugs (poppies - opium, morninglories - ASD, LSD, fungi - psilocin, etc) as well as an overindulgence in OTC drugs such as alcohol, nicotine and caffeine.

If you haven't gotten the point of my posts - 2 things (and FWIW, this is for all of us myself included and not just Alan):

Mark 7:18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;​

It's not the things which we consume but the motivation of the heart.
Many of us have addictions, caffeine is a powerful and addictive drug.
Obesity is a result of an addiction or a failure to discipline one's appetite.​

What difference does it really make if it's only a "mild" addiction or the repercussions of drunkeness
have a more catastrophic immediate result.​

It's an area of life in which we have control and not the Lord.​

Personally I am thankful that He is much more patient and does not use the same scorecard as His children.​

Proverbs 20:23 Divers weights are an abomination unto the LORD; and a false balance is not good.​

It seems almost as if folks enjoy condemning each other for the sins which they themselves do not commit whilst ignoring or dismissing their own.​

Luke 6:41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?​

Psalm 130:3 If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?​

HankD​

 

What does anyone think of my post in the moderation section with regard to this subject? Don't forget eating penuts as well.

 

Are you assuming there is only one type of wine because I haven't said about this. However I know the verse your trying to use and I disagree on many facets.

Umm.. It is placed in the same 'catagory' not stated to be the same thing as 'strong drink', and that catagory is typified by the reason for it's usage there.

 

No, there are many types of wine (Mer lot, Chardonnay, etc.)...but what I am saying is wine is always wine. Wine mixed with water is "wine mixed with water"...which is never called wine in Scripture. The "best" wine is the same kind of wine that was considered the best back then...well aged and well refined.

"wine and other strong drink" means wine is a strong drink. 1 part wine to 5 parts water is no longer a strong drink, but some gross hybrid drink that I don't believe was used the majority of the time. I tried that, and taste buds haven't changed over time The only way I can see this mixture being used is if wine was scarce or they were running out.

 

Alcohol and or Drugs no matter it still destroys, I just received this.


Please Pray for Corey's friend from Aldine, Tony Cooper age 41. He is in intensive care at Methodist Hospital Willowbrook. His kidneys and pancreas have shut down due to drugs and alcohol. He is on life support and the next 48 hours will determine weather he lives. He has 2 young daughters … Thanks Judy

 

That is a sad situation...but to blame it on drugs and alcohol and not the individual is just ignorant. Let's also blame 9/11 on the airplanes His kidneys shut down due to his abuse of drugs and alcohol.

Millions of people also die due to unhealthy eating...so I guess we can also say food destroys?

 

I'm not blaming anything or anyone, I have no right to, I'm just stating a fact. Drugs and Alcohol kill if not the user then those they may come in contact with.

 

Drugs and alcohol are inanimate object that can do nothing on their own. I can guarantee your safety if you walk down the liquor isle at your local grocer...they will not harm or kill you by coming into contact with them.

 

That's enough for me, I will let you and the Lord hash it out when you meet.

 

I'm looking forward to it...He will be serving the best wine, after all

 

I voted " Know your limit ". As long as you don't get drunk.

I enjoy a cocktail from time to time or cider, at home or at restaurant.

 

That was my point - that it was a part of normal everyday culture then and there, but not here. The U.S. is not a country where the norm is to have wine with most meals nor is it normal for children to have watered down wine with meals, as they do in France.

Since wine does not have the same place here as it did there and then, we should consider that this is a different cultural context. Just because it was okay in that culture (and I think it was because they could not drink the water and there was little water, but wine would keep) does not mean we can do the exact same thing. That's my point. (Btw, I have yet to say drinking wine is wrong and I am not against wine for communion; I'm trying to show that some of the reasons given for drinking are not valid).

 

Just for information, children having watered down wine with meals, i have never heard of that, it was probably before the 70s or during WWII. We don't lack water

Wine is a " common " drink here, and i join you on that cultural idea of alcohol, but on another side, promotion of any alcohol, in a magazine, on tv, is strictly forbidden (even wine).

It won't prevent someone to drink some imo, that's like the fact they forbid cigarettes promotion in the same model or oblige tobacco makers to put " Smoking kills " on their tobacco packets, it doesn't change anything.

 

Yes, it was earlier that I was referring to, back in my past (though it was definitely after WW 2!!). But let's not go there! :laugh:

Thanks for the info, Spear.

 

In 1Cor 8:13 Paul says that if what he eats causes someone to stumble, he will not consume.